Abuse for being a new player, any solution?

I just cant understand why you would expect 7 random people who already know how to do their role in a fight to take the time to watch you eat dirt and learn a fight. It seems like someone who does that is hoping for a carry, whether they admit it to themselves or not. I think PF is for specific things like learning groups not DF. Because really it seems like you are begging for a handout. My two sense. Foul language and rudeness is not needed for people who do this, but really when I have an hour to get a few primals down I go in df for a larger group of people and a quicker chance of getting in.

I hate seeing"I'm new I'm going in blind" on duties, I actually feel affronted, because I either have to waste my time on the fight where 1 person can wipe us or eat a thirty minute penalty because person demands you help them regardless of your schedule. Yeah, it seems rude to me on both parts.

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Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

I got to say the more I hear about Japanese server rules, the more baffled I am. They sound terrible. Quit if things hit x timer... never use DF if you are not experience, force the use of the PF for new players... honestly... it sounds terrible (and cant even believe it is true.)

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I wouldn't go as far to say they're terrible. It's just a different culture. Over there, you need to abide by their rules, let them razz you a little, then they'll come around. It doesn't make it right, but it's the way it is. It's not this "server of peace and understanding" like some of these forum regulars would have you believe though. I had good experiences and bad experiences over there just like the NA servers. I've never encounter such ignorant discrimination towards a country of origin though, that was new.

As far as the duty finder, the duty roulette clearly exemplifies what the duty finder was intended for. The western gaming culture accepts it because we are used to being tolerant of other individuals' backgrounds, religious beliefs, ethnicities, etcetera. It only makes sense we would accept a "melting pot" of a mechanic.

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Originally Posted by ErnestoGiovanni

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I don't know which type of entitlement is worse. People who think they are not wasting time playing a video game, or people who think it's funny to waste people's time in a video game. I don't think the op is either.

Man lol it makes me sad how this community is becoming more and more " unfriendly "
The general rule since they made ex primals is that
If you haven't had practice with the instance within the first few weeks then be prepared for a lot of wtf i don't even moments.
Doing things when they aren't hot gets u literally burned at the stake by ppl just cuz u chose to do it later.

You go into pf and make a learning party, ppl soon go " i can't see this happening" then leave after a few wipes causing a domino effect.
You go into df and ppl say the same thing and vote abandon after a few attempts.
How are you supposed to get 1st hand exp if you can't even get ppl to not quit.
This counts even for ls mates and fc buds, i'm 90% ppl won't stay for hours on end trying to get you / others a clear if there's nothing in return lol
It's just what it is i guess.

I'll just say this:

While it makes sense to a degree how the JP servers handle DF/PF, we're all here in the English forums, so it's safe to say most of us are playing on NA servers. So how Japan does it holds no weight.

Your time is no more or less important than someone else's in this game; hardcore, casual, or in between. Don't ever think otherwise.

Want to learn something? Queue for it. Sure, watch all the videos you like, make all the PF groups or randomly jump into DF (assuming you can learn through a trial by fire), but JUST. DO. IT. I always say, "Can't burn it if you don't learn it." And you can't learn anything if you don't try. Made a mistake? Good. Won't be the last one. Pick yourself up, learn what you did wrong, then don't do it again. Someone mad? Let 'em be mad. You get kicked? Queue again. TRY again. Keep going til you know it. THEN have the patience and understanding to teach the guy that comes behind you. You were in his shoes once.

And don't let someone else tell you how you should do things. Not unless they're paying your sub.

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Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

If you want efficiency, you go static/pre-formed. If you want to test your luck, then you gamble to join up with total random strnagers in the DF.

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I'd say it goes both ways. On low populated servers, it's hard to actually form pre-formed parties for dated content. Even newer content the wait for tanks/scholars to join a pre-formed party on PF takes forever. So experienced players use CF.

Understandably, the new players use CF too. Because even if they try to form a pre-formed learning party, it would take forever to get a group for dated content on a low populated server.

Most people on JP server realize the CF is for everyone. The majority are experienced players expecting to get a kill. Also FC size on JP servers are typically much smaller than NA/EU. I'd say the average FC is probably 15-30 people with only 7~20 active members. So it's difficult to make pre-formed with only your FC members too.

So we go in CF expecting to get a kill. But also realize that there is the possibility of new/inexperienced player in there. So we will help and actually give advice, explain mechanics.

Most of the EX-Primals in CF are completely doable with only 1~2 DPS and 1 healer and 1 tank (geared/competent). So even if there is new player, its usually beatable. In the case it isn't, we just initiate give up vote and move on without bashing the player(s) that's causing the wipe.

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Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

had 5 wipes in Haukke Manor the other night, and even got a time running out warning. That is a group of new players that would have had their first run ruined if we just gave up on them.

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I think the dungeons is a totally different story. Unless the healer absolutely cannot cast heal for some reason, every dungeon is beatable and has mechanics that can easily be explained.

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Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

DPS classes are forced to endure in the DF, a separate topic but one that complicates the idea of just killing a party and cheating those guys of 2 hours of their lives, just because of 15 minutes of yours.

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I totally understand. But I don't like to put it this way, but the experienced players have already "paid their dues." We spent hours and days trying to beat these EX-Primals / Coils when they first came out, and were vastly, vastly "undergeared" compared to how geared the majority of the player base is now, and would often wipe on the DPS checks. But fought for those clears with long learning parties eventually got the mechanics down pat, and beat them.

I know it sounds cruel, but experienced 6 or 7 players shouldn't have to get "cheated" out of 90 minutes of their lives for one or 2 new players. Just because someone is new doesn't mean that they are entitled to an auto-clear. The new player gets mechanics explained and 15 minutes of practice. Que times might be long, but the new player has to keep trying. Eventually they will get it or get to the point that they can get carried.

And I'm strongly against "buying clears" because what's the point of playing the game then?

Sorry for the long post, but one thing is for sure, is that bullying/namecalling shouldn't exist. There needs to be that proper balance.

Experienced player has to understand that DF has the possibility of New/Inexperienced/No skill player being in there.

The new player need to understand that Experienced players have an agenda, and just go in DF for a clear too, and shouldn’t have a sense of entitlement.

What if it's late at night or before a work shift? Or on lunch break or something? The experience player maybe go in because "Oh let me get one more EX-Titan kill for my Nexus before I go to sleep." Should he have to stay there for more than 15 minutes if it's obvious that the new/inexperienced people in there can't get the kill?

Everyone needs to understand that the DF is for everyone. So experienced player don't need to name-call bully the new player.

New/Inexperienced player need to understand that they are not entitled to a 90 minute lesson just because they are new.

The Vote give up / Disband without name calling or voting to kick a certain player is the best balance I think. I've never been vote-kicked before, but I'm sure it must suck to know that you've been vote-kicked. I would rather play the 15 minutes and disband/give up rather than voting someone out. (Unless harassment, name calling, trolling)

hey OP that guy won't be the last one to do that kind of crap. happened to most of us as we were working our way through content.

however...

you didn't mention in your post if you did or didn't read a guide/watch a video before going in.

DF is a good place to practice fights and the playerbase now is experienced enough to be able to accommodate a few new players. however, if a player goes in 100% new without any information about the fight, it will be a much bigger time investment for the remaining 7 players. its situations like this that will make the bad apples really stick out.

new+informed= a player that everyone wants to be with because of soldierybonus
new+uninformed= might be better off leaving the duty and taking the 30min penalty to work on other things

This stems from a fact that these fights have been around for a YEAR now. Yes titan EX is around for a YEAR. Some people can do it with their eyes closed now, while new players have no idea what they are going into. Its not unlike when, say, you get a new guy at work and hes not exactly doing his job properly. You try to help him but sometimes you just /rolleyes.

What that guy, and I would also add the people that voted to kick the OP, have forgotten or never understood from the start is 1: In NA/EU you can't expect a 1-shot from the DF, to expect that is not realistic and to demand it is down right silly. 2: People mess up, even people that have done it before and raging about it solves nothing. 3: Kicking anyone after one wipe, especially a new player, is not good for the community at all and if to many people do that it will hurt us all in the long run. 4: We have all been new at one point and if someone is new today that means that we have a new player in the community, that is not a bad thing.

And lastly, play nice and show respect to one another, that means if you are new say so and ask for advice if there is something that is unclear and if you are an old player at least try to help the new players instead of kicking them after 1 wipe.

Titan EX I have noticed this behavior more often than any other primal or raid/dungeons. I tried to get around this myself by making PF groups for it explicitly stating no rage quitters, minimum read a guide or watch a video of fight and put both training party and also tried making going for clear party. This is on a very high population legacy server...still end up waiting over 3 hours each time and most of the time does not even start because people are unwilling to hang around in PF group waiting to fill for such long periods, then when get in someone dies or couple people make a mistake at first try and people rage quit and leave which forces me to make another group and waiting around another 3 hours just attempting to try again as it has a domino effect on people who remained.

That pisses me off more than people dying or making mistakes, rage quitters are far more annoying than people who make mistakes. People who throw hissy fits when someone makes a mistake is also annoying, if someone makes a mistake try teaching them politely and in a non-condescending way instead of throwing childish insults. Titan Ex is also the one raid/dungeon that I will never join 'in progress' anymore, every single time I used to try that it would always put me in with one or two people present inside on their way out and no-one else coming in/staying. Not once have I come across an in progress version of that run where it wasn't putting me in just as everyone else is leaving which is why I end up making new group and waiting 3 hours or longer to try again over and over then get screwed over by rage quitters again and again instead.

I have nothing but contempt these days for rage quitters. People who make mistakes don't bother me that much, teach them and help them get better instead. I would say minimum allocate 30 minutes of the run for helping others if wiping before even considering vote abandon if everyone still present, not vote abandon or rage quit and leave after first wipe or couple wipes. Then if after 30 minutes at minimum and if still wiping on phase one every time then there is more justification for vote kick, vote abandon or leaving...if do leave take the consequence of your choice and your penalty instead of insulting everyone else just because they wouldn't vote kick you out to avoid taking responsibility for your choices.

You coming here and complaining about it is exactly why people get like that in game. Don't feed the trolls.