So, you want to Strength Tank? The Full Comparison and Info!

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Originally Posted by Lavieh

Find a BRD friend and ask him to Paeon - AFK for 10 minutes.

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Not enough time for a good parse. =/

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Originally Posted by ZDamned

If you saved your parse logs, it wouldn't be too hard to go back and check how many times you crit with each encounter, just add the number after the DPS.

The reason your parses are not valid at that point, is because they only show a small sample of data. In order for an actual useful data set, you would need to macro an entire TP pool, and let it run fully parsed for at least 20 encounters on the dummy, then average ALL of those results together. That removes the spike in DPS from chance over time. (Mean Median Mode math from the past!)

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Hey, even if it doesn't show just how much DPS will increase, it does show that DPS will increase, which is useful in and of itself. I was never attempting to create a 100% statistically accurate test in the first place; just something quick and dirty. So... don't be afraid to decry it; it was barely any work at all!

Unfortunately, I did not save the logs(or, if ACT does it automatically, I couldn't figure out how to retrieve them), so I cannot add the "this was my observed Crit rate in this particular 3 minutes!" stamp to each parse :(

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If your Crit rate was something more consistent, then you wouldn't need to care as much, but the fact that you think it's 1-2 in 10 hits makes it a very misleading data set. Crit-rating is on LOTS of fending gear...

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My Crit Rate was consistent the entire time, as far as the stat itself was concerned. It stayed at 382 for every single test. If I try this again it should probably be while naked to minimize the effect of all Secondaries. At the very least, I can take off the two pieces of body gear I was wearing(the Ironworks Helmet and Belt) that had Crit to knock it down to 341. Strength is a linear increase in damage, as far as I'm aware, so it probably shouldn't muddle the numbers. Just make the baseline lower.

Regarding the idea of one long parse...

How long would it take for the Crit Rate to normalize in the span of a single encounter? I'd think it's definitely possible to chain enough Bards and/or Ninjas to prevent TP starvation for quite a long while ;)

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Originally Posted by ZDamned

Not enough time for a good parse. =/

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A bard can literally afk for probably an hour with Paeon up as long as he doesn't engage the test dummy. Also 10 minutes is plenty of time for a good parse to accurately calculate RNG.

Or we could just use the damage formulas to tell how much str will buff and never worry about sample size let alone spending hrs hacking at dummies. >_>

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Originally Posted by Izsha

Or we could just use the damage formulas to tell how much str will buff and never worry about sample size let alone spending hrs hacking at dummies. >_>

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great idea. Just how do you figure them out without spending hours on dummies consideing the devs won't hand them ?

They've already been figured out. Good Samaritans have already done the testing to reverse engineer the damage formulas in this game so we don't have to test every possible combination of gear like in this thread. How do you think we have BIS sets figured out the day gear is released before anyone even has them, or how people worked out the new dps rankings when specifics of drg/nin buffs/nerfs were in patch notes before the servers even went live? I'm at work so I can't really access my spreadsheets, but there are plenty of math heads around here.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

great idea. Just how do you figure them out without spending hours on dummies consideing the devs won't hand them ?

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It's called spreadsheets. Most of the work was done before the game was even launched, with the exception of the damage formula which was modified 2 months after release. Post the numbers you want tested and I'll return the values.

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Originally Posted by Donjo

Well, that's curious. Why such a small increase between 65 and 95?

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Because PLDs have a very high Hits per Second due to their auto-attack speed. Warriors have the lowest auto-attack in game.

Auto-Attack damage takes into account Strength and DET, just like standard abilities and as you're doing more Hits Per Second, the impact Strength on a Paladin is huge, in comparison to the Warrior.

It's similar to how CRT works with SS. Jobs with a higher skill speed have CRT impact their damage a lot more as they're doing more Hits Per Second, meaning a higher Crit Per Second value as well.

Kind of off topic, but does anyone know the conversion of Block Rate into Block Rate %? Higher block rates will affect PLDs DMG due to Spirits Within and I'll need this value for the PLD Model I'm now working on.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

It's called spreadsheets. Most of the work was done before the game was even launched, with the exception of the damage formula which was modified 2 months after release. Post the numbers you want tested and I'll return the values.

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that was irony >_>

people testing stuff, being told to use formulas instead of testing.. (without giving said formula). Yeah, sounds a good idea to use a formula you don't know :p

oh well.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Because PLDs have a very high Hits per Second due to their auto-attack speed. Warriors have the lowest auto-attack in game.
Auto-Attack damage takes into account Strength and DET, just like standard abilities and as you're doing more Hits Per Second, the impact Strength on a Paladin is huge, in comparison to the Warrior.

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Paladin does get a bigger boost, but that's because of sword oath (see end of post), not what you've stated. Strength and the Crit/Det secondaries are approximately linear increases in damage (unless you have something like a crit-based proc). Every one point increase in stat simply multiplies overall damage by some small amount. You may hit more as a paladin but you hit for less and that means the impacts of any particular stat is the same, ratio-wise, as hitting less often for more.

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It's similar to how CRT works with SS. Jobs with a higher skill speed have CRT impact their damage a lot more as they're doing more Hits Per Second, meaning a higher Crit Per Second value as well.

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Crit has a fixed damage multiplier and rate. So x% crit impacts small fast hits the same as it impacts large long hits as long as the base DPS of the two modes is the same(again, unless there's a crit-based proc-type thing involved). The only difference is that fast hits will normalize to the base crit rate more quickly than slow hits will. That makes slows hits far more likely to under or over-perform in short periods of damage.

The likely real answer is to his question is "small sample size". He's lucky or unlucky with critical hits in his 3minutes. He needs to be multiple rounds of each to statistics.

As far as war v. paly: Paladin is actually one example of non-linearity where simple percentage differences don't happen. Sword oath adds straight potency to auto attacks. That doesn't really affect the weight of any secondary, just how much more damage they do shield vs. sword vs. plain stance and against warriors.