Try reading more carefully. I mentioned BLMs being overpowered in the past, not right now. Yes, I did play *a lot* of Wolves Den when it was introduced and I'm sure EVERY person back then would agree Black Mage was overpowered. Sleep was auto-win in Wolves Den. Your whine-post makes it seem like you want things to be like that again. Black Mage is just fine now and can be pretty deadly when played correctly. There's a reason why casters are high priority targets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonkra
BLM nerfs much over the top?
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12-10-2014, 02:34 AMDeelo
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12-10-2014, 03:24 AMTonkraQuote:
Originally Posted by Houston009
CC's arent strong at all right now.. the first effect grants a 15s sleep.. which most of the time is purified for 70% ... when you sleep right after its around 8-10 seconds which shouldnt called sleep in any ways.. thats almost the duration of a stun in other PVP MMorpgs.
I come from DAOC where CC was one of the essential strategic elemts of PVP. DAOC offers one of the best pvp systems out there..
in DAOC mezz (sleep) and roots had a duration of 30s up to 1 minute.
In contrast to the CC System in FFXIV when you get sleeped once in PVP and the effect wears off you will be granted an immunity timer of 1 minute against the specific Crowd Control type. so it was impossible to chain sleep someone.
I better would like to have a working Sleep instead of a gimped sleep that i have to cast about 2 times on an enemy for keep it lasting for 8 seconds.
There are three different types: root, mezz(Sleep) and snare (heavy effect).. so when you get sleeped once then you can be either rooted or snared.. if these effects end you will receive also an immunity effect for these.
additionally you had skills like "purge" which is the equivalent to "purify" in FFXIV... but on the contrary it was on a 5 min - 10 min timer. And skills like charge for melee dd's just like for Dragoon etc.
And in FFXIV you can get purified by healers as well. so there are many abillities against CC in this game already. And for me 8 seconds sleep isnt really much a big deal or even to call it "strong" or an "tactical" element.. its just enough to run out of range or to hit others for 2-3 hits.
Thats why we have these endless Battles at flags in Carteneau, when there are about 3 healers in a party that they almost overheal anything.. CC could be a method against this.. but i think 8-15 seconds.. especially when you have purify ready for most of the time.. is just a joke.
in DAOC there have been healers, tanks, damage dealers, speeders, buffers... and those who were responsible for CC... in FFXIV you cant say BLM's task is to CC... its more like "a moment of silence" ... because 8-15 s isnt much more than that.
And you say you could hold people for 52s in sleep before nerf? then i myself would think it would have been much better if they overworked the CC system like the DAOC system... which means that sleep is being effective just for one time in pvp : after that the enemy receives an immunity timer of 1 minute.
But the "balance" formula from SE seems so flat and stupid to me .. i mean.. honestly..:
- 50% effect sleep
- 50% snare etc.
- 50% damage swiftcast
is that really how you should balance classes?! "insert -50%" ???!
sorry i completely disagree.. at least a swiftcast nerf of around 25% damage would have changed very MUCH.
why should i cast now flare EVER in pvp? if it drains of ALL my MP and does as much damage as i would cast firega normally??
in DAOC there have been casters that could perform STRONG PBAEO dd spells, that could kill an enemy within 3-4 spells... nobody complained.. because casters should be glass canons, and they can be interrupted easily... thats called a trade off! -
12-10-2014, 07:49 AMSlibI can't believe people can even say CC's aren't strong. They are insanely powerful. I've had fights where adder sent two groups to Manors at the start and we only had one, and thanks to the CC in my coordinated group that's all on teamspeak, we destroyed them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonkra
The issue I face with CC in frontlines is the fact that people do not coordinate at all. You can sleep all you want, but some paladin thinks it's a great idea to circle of scorn everyone and wake them up, or the bards that spam their AOE. A lot of people who PvP like to pad the damage meters instead of focus firing one target while letting your black mage or white mage CC the others.
When I played wolves den, CC is the most important factor in the match in order to win. Hell, in frontlines I've gone with 2 people from my FC to take over a base against 6 + other people and we've won due to CCing healers.
There have also been plenty of times where I was CC'd and watched my group slowly get picked off and noone was purifying me or my other healer.
I don't take you as a serious PvPer if you think the CC in this game is not strong... 30 seconds was rediculous for sleep, 15 is still too strong IMO. It basically cancels out 6 actions from that target. 3 if it's a 50% DR'd sleep. -
12-10-2014, 10:40 AMDimitrii
The guy is making a case for allowing jobs the ability to completely nullify all actions opposing players can perform for 30 seconds up to as much as a minute or more lol. There is no point in even indulging him in discussions about it as the idea itself is that absurd.
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12-10-2014, 10:00 PMTonkraQuote:
Originally Posted by Dimitrii
Why is that absurd? in Dark Age of Camelot, AION, Lineage II etc. its quiet common.. thats what Crowd Control is supposed to be...
Additionally there are many skills against CC also.. such as purify, skills that grant DRG etc. immunity against CC for a period of time... etc.
i think you guys are just PVM players who have no idea of PVP games at all.
-> DAOC PVP
DAOC mezz
By the Way yoshi P. also played DAOC as he mentioned.. But my opinion stays... we have no CC System in FFXIV.. first sleep is purified mostly anyways. what stays is a sleep of 8s-10s duration (which is quickly over) which can either be broken by damage (FFXIV players do that all the time, because they are mostly bad pvp players) or by a healer who purifies them.
Purify is most of the time ready anyways because the cooldown is quiet short.
and i dislike the idea of being able to sleep targets 3 times anyways.. one time but therefore a longer duration (lets say at least 20-25 seconds) would have been much better... than sleeping the target for 8s- 3 s everytime.
and as i said thats not all. Flare became a completely senseless spell in PVP. Not enough that it drains off all your MP.. with swiftcast it does not more damage than a regular fire I skill.. or even lower. after that-> empty MP.
thats what i call "nerf it to death", when a skill (Flare) becomes completely irrelevant in PVP. every skill should be usable. This is how balancing should NOT look like. -
12-10-2014, 11:16 PMHouston009
Hardcast Flare. I get them off all the time.
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12-10-2014, 11:41 PMTonkraand that should bring what? then you better cast 6 times firega instead of one flare.. standing there for an hour casting. if you perform flare after a regular firega cast... that damage you've done with firega before is often healed already by the healers with aeo heal.. because casting time of flare is too long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Houston009
-50% swiftcast damage
is ridiculous. point. then they also should half the MP drained by flare... *ugly*
having high aeo damage with flare and draining off all your MP was the trade off for it.. and nothing i'd call overpowered. healers can instantly recover 100% of the group HP's so why isnt that nerfed too? overpowered??!
i'd say they should also reduce that by 50% *mimimimi*
this game is about the "rock-paper->scissors" pricipal... -
12-10-2014, 11:52 PMHouston009
You are aware Night Wing is a move BLMs get, right? Or even, low and behold, "Swiftcast" Sleep.
You can burn them down with Fire and sleep everyone within 5y instantly, and hardcast Flare -> Fire III (If you've gotten a Firestarter proc from prior Fires)
You also mention "firega" a lot as if you are casting Fire III instead of Fire I. No wonder you cant cast. XDQuote:
Originally Posted by Tonkra
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12-10-2014, 11:56 PMTonkralol you dont play BLM often dont you? and im not talking about wolves den anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Houston009
The case that you "instant sleep" everyone.. and everyone being in sleep in the end is something that is SO rare... and normally not the case.. often they already have an immunity timer against sleep or they purify sleep or get purified by the healer.. your "theory" is just a "theory" and nothing more.
and if you talk about 1vs1.. firega is the better decision than flare..
1. you wont lose all your MP
2. it takes less time to cast
3. it makes slightly less damage.
and last but not least... if the players are TOO stupid to stand so close together that they all get hit at the same time by flare AEO or sleep... its a lack of PVP "skill" and that what they should deserve in the end.
In DAOC you wont every see people stick together because of AEO mezz (sleep) and fat aeo damage.. if they are good pvp players..
But in FFXIV we have bad players who cant actually avoid these effects.. so it needs to be nerfed right?
it would be too much to ask for the players "playing right" instead of shouting for a nerf...
i never heard of BLM being overpowered.. even before Flare nerf.. it have been just few people who cried ... thats all.
(especially the ones who cant activate their brains in PVP)
after the nerf swiftcast damage spells are reduced to the damage potency of a scathe instant spell (flare = 130 dmg potency, firega = 120 dmg potency) Scathe = 100 dmg potency, instant.. so how usefull is a swiftcast damage spell now?
this is what i call bad balancing. point. -
12-11-2014, 12:06 AMHouston009I play BLM all the time, difference is I'm actually quite intelligent with my CCs, as in luring the train behind me into their group then Sleep/Binding them all, and you know actually telling the people I'm with that I'm CCing via Chat or VOIP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonkra
You just sound as though you've had bad experience with your attempt to CC with no communication with your group, and for that i pity you.
Firega, again are you talking about Fire III, if so why are you playing BLM?
You should be casting Fire I, not Fire III
And for your points:
1. BLM has Convert and Mana Draw L2Use them pl0x
2. Fire I takes less time to cast than Fire III, cost less, and has a chance of giving you a free "firega"
3. Flare is stronger than Fire III("firega")