Minor WAR changes that I, personally, would love to see.

Warrior is fine as it is, PLD and WAR were not designed to work equally, WAR is superior in many fights, while PLD is superior in many others. However, both can MT any fight just fine.

Holmgang and Hallowed Ground are not only lifesavers, they both have their own utility purposes as well.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Well if healers cant lustrate/bene or even a cure 2/adlo in 6 seconds, aint Holmgang thats the problem ^_^

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Homlgang is indeed the issue. If my healer could have hit me with Lustrate/Bene, what's the point in even popping Holmgang and rooting myself in place for 6 seconds? It's an ineffective cooldown. It mitigates no damage, leaves little to no room for recovery even if used at the right time, and potentially makes a bad situation worse by rooting you in place for 6 seconds.

HG mitigates everything for 10 seconds, without any negative effects attached to it. That's an effective "oh shit" button.

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Originally Posted by Sove92

Warrior is fine as it is, PLD and WAR were not designed to work equally, WAR is superior in many fights, while PLD is superior in many others. However, both can MT any fight just fine.

Holmgang and Hallowed Ground are not only lifesavers, they both have their own utility purposes as well.

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You clearly haven't tried doing MT on T9 with WAR. As I said, I have both jobs at i110, and use both evenly throughout SCoB. No one can deny that PLD is far more effective at tanking T9 than WAR. It's hard enough to get WAR past Ravensbeak. As said earlier in this thread, a WAR simply doesn't have the tools it needs to survive the 3rd stack of Bahamut's Favor.

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Originally Posted by Raxion

You clearly haven't tried doing MT on T9 with WAR. As I said, I have both jobs at i110, and use both evenly throughout SCoB. No one can deny that PLD is far more effective at tanking T9 than WAR. It's hard enough to get WAR past Ravensbeak. As said earlier in this thread, a WAR simply doesn't have the tools it needs to survive the 3rd stack of Bahamut's Favor.

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I never said WAR would be better at tanking T9 than a PLD, but it can be done. I don't know how big the damage increase is but I had to take over at 2 stacks once in STR jewellery. With Inner Beast and Foresight, no problems at all with healers throwing heals between the hits. T9 has been solotanked by a WAR before.

http://youtu.be/mQqKFRClSg4?t=10m33s And this proves your statement completely false. They have no issues at all.

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Originally Posted by Wyrmnus

I personally miss the ORIGINAL Berserk, for when WAR isn't tanking. You know what I mean, right? ;)

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I think Marauder having Berserk is a hint to what Marauder's 2nd Job (aka the DPS Job) will be once it is released.

After all each class is planned to have 2 Jobs they will split from.

It won't be a surprise if Marauder's DPS Job is Berserker.

I'd say yes give Warriors access to Rampart and remove the pacification after Berserk cause that really sucks. Warrior is fun to play and a nice change but I feel a lot safer on my Paladin. And yes I use Warrior the way it should be used but even still, Paladin cooldowns mitigate damage better than anything the warrior has up it's sleeve.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Hallowed Ground is the reason people don't want warrior as a mt in t9. So they can safely take the third behemoth's favor. So, all they need to do is make holmgang better.

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Actually, I think Hallowed is the reason that people prefer PLD over WAR for single tank situations. They don't have to care about the third Bahamut's Favor. It's much easier to survive Bahamut's Claw when another tank is there to provoke midway and split the damage.

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Originally Posted by Raxion

HG mitigates everything for 10 seconds, without any negative effects attached to it. That's an effective "oh shit" button.

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That's not true. HG will not affect anything that's just plain intended to kill you, such as primal enrages. A particularly easy example to witness is Ramuh Extreme's Shock Strike. Even if you have Surge Protection, you'll still take damage from it while HG is up.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Warrior never really appealed to me either as a job worth levelling or as a tank to heal. They're giant MP sinks as they have almost zero damage mitigation, and sadly the cure boost does little to make them useful against targets which can strip thousands of HP in a single swipe.

Honestly, I think Warriors need a complete overhaul to be useful in the same situations as Paladins currently are. When a warrior takes a big hit, it's the WHM's duty to restore it. When a Paladin takes a big hit, it's the Paladin's duty to fire a cooldown to defend against it. When you can reduce some of the strongest moves in the game to a mere 40% of their original damage it's no surprise that Paladin is the first choice.

Hallowed Ground is NOT the sole reason people choose Paladins. It's great in emergencies and special occasions, but it's overall survivability which makes PLD win in the end.

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Ever since the 2.1 changes, there's one thing that the WAR has always been better at than PLD: Mitigating predictable burst damage. Why? Because Inner Beast has the lowest cooldown of any damage reducing attack in the entire game and a WAR who is actually good at their job can have it up to reduce every spike when they're predictable. Our burst damage attacks in Turn 9 are Ravensbeak and Bahamut's Claw. They are predictable. They are more predictable than Death Sentence, and Inner Beast can be up for them. Every time. If a WAR is getting instagibbed by these attacks and it seems odd that it's happening, it's just a bad tank. You wanna survive the third Bahamut's Favor without HG or Holmgang? Stack Inner Beast and Vengeance. You're now taking 56% damage. You can even use Storm's Path for every one, although I'm not positive how that affects the math. Even if you don't have Vengeance up, WARs have the distinct advantage of never running out of cooldowns when faced with predictable spike damage.

I also heard the "Paladin's can reduce a hit to 40% of its original total." That 40% number comes from a Pally who stacks Shield Oath, Rampart, and Sentinel at the same time. This is something a PLD should never, ever do. For lulz, it looks like the lowest a PLD can get to is about 23% if they have all of those cooldowns up and successfully block with the Noct Shield.

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Originally Posted by Donjo

I also heard the "Paladin's can reduce a hit to 40% of its original total." That 40% number comes from a Pally who stacks Shield Oath, Rampart, and Sentinel at the same time.

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You should explain this part better before someone doesn't understand that DR is this game is multiplicative and not additive attacks you over it.

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Originally Posted by Donjo

That's not true. HG will not affect anything that's just plain intended to kill you, such as primal enrages. A particularly easy example to witness is Ramuh Extreme's Shock Strike. Even if you have Surge Protection, you'll still take damage from it while HG is up.

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Ok? Not like Holmgang will save you from those either. When comparing the two side by side you don't get to say HG is worse because you'll still die to the same things Holmgang would have died from.

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Originally Posted by CaladS

I'd say yes give Warriors access to Rampart and remove the pacification after Berserk cause that really sucks. Warrior is fun to play and a nice change but I feel a lot safer on my Paladin. And yes I use Warrior the way it should be used but even still, Paladin cooldowns mitigate damage better than anything the warrior has up it's sleeve.

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Hey Calad! I need to make my way back to Cerberus :P been so busy on Odin