Will Shiva be an Evil Primal?

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Originally Posted by TheRogueX

he is protecting his people from the Limsans, who happily slaughter the Sahagin in droves so that they can expand their territory.[/B]

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Actually the limsans already owned the land, the sahagins just recently started expanding there now, is why they where slaughtering them in droves. There was no sahagin nest in the LL area in 1.0. I do believe they mention this in the sahagin beastman questline as well.

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Originally Posted by Exodus-E

I agree with your post/list, save for these particular two.

Ifrit: He is violent, yes; but what he's really after is complete domination/worshipers.
You could argue that it's similar to fire in that all it does is expand and consume everything it touches (akin to "tempering" or "dominating", as an analogy), but still...he's not exactly "good".

Garuda: She is outright sadistic and insane, not to mention power-hungry. She's probably the closest someone would call "evil" here.

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Again, at least for Ifrit, his behavior is perfectly aligned to the nature of fire. That being said, he's completely neutral. Note that when he tempers, he tempers all, including those who had already helped him (the traitor Flames); his flame is all encompassing and indiscriminate. Anyway, I never tried to argue that he was "good," just that he's not evil.

Garuda is hard to ping down. She is ruthless and vicious. She's the only one of the first three that we ever saw who seemed to actually have not only personal ambition, but was also vindictive and held grudges. She was that way in 1.0, too. I will concede that Garuda could be considered evil, but she's really the only one that I know of.

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Originally Posted by DoubleT

Actually the limsans already owned the land, the sahagins just recently started expanding there now, is why they where slaughtering them in droves. There was no sahagin nest in the LL area in 1.0. I do believe they mention this in the sahagin beastman questline as well.

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To Leviathan, who is eternal, and the Sahagins, who are native to that region, the Limsans are foreign invaders. Plus, the reason why there was no nest there in 1.0 is because that area was underwater. The seas have receded. Indeed, Limsa is trying to kick them off of land where they already were living before the Calamity.

Simply being summoned is enough to call them evil. I'm not referring to their tempering powers or how devastating their abilities can be, no. I refer to them requiring Aether to exist. If they consume all the Aether, Eorzea (or the world, Hydaelyn?) will cease to exist. Why else would the Ascians teach beastmen how to summon Primals?

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Simply being summoned is enough to call them evil. I'm not referring to their tempering powers or how devastating their abilities can be, no. I refer to them requiring Aether to exist. If they consume all the Aether, Eorzea (or the world, Hydaelyn?) will cease to exist. Why else would the Ascians teach beastmen how to summon Primals?

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Considering that when they die they disperse and their aether is returned to Eorzea.. um.. I don't think it's technically possible for them to consume all the aether. plus, everything on Hydaelyn requires aether in order to exist. Aether is tied up into every living and non-living thing. Using your line of thinking, one could argue that life itself is evil because it seeks to expand and grow and flourish, which uses up more and more aether as more and more living organisms are born. As for the Ascians, they're seeking to weaken Eorzea and, by extension Hydaelyn, through constant conflict. Their absolute goals still have yet to be seen.

The people that ran the ffxivmodels site had a large number of short, fat bird people in the last update they did (2.3 I think), they are likely the tribe for Shiva. (Example)

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Originally Posted by myahele

I kinda hope they choose to remodel shivas primal. I just don't like that spikey hair.

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I loved the FFX model.

http://senpaigamer.com/sites/default...emaster-31.jpg

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Originally Posted by TheRogueX

Again, at least for Ifrit, his behavior is perfectly aligned to the nature of fire. That being said, he's completely neutral. Note that when he tempers, he tempers all, including those who had already helped him (the traitor Flames); his flame is all encompassing and indiscriminate. Anyway, I never tried to argue that he was "good," just that he's not evil.

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Normal or not doesn't make it any less evil, IMO.

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Originally Posted by TheRogueX

To Leviathan, who is eternal, and the Sahagins, who are native to that region, the Limsans are foreign invaders. Plus, the reason why there was no nest there in 1.0 is because that area was underwater. The seas have receded. Indeed, Limsa is trying to kick them off of land where they already were living before the Calamity.

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I thought the Sahagin were native to the indigo deep, plus we know other people lived there long ago, like the nymians, so can you provide a source?

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Originally Posted by Alukah

Normal or not doesn't make it any less evil, IMO.

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Morality is a completely human creation. These creatures are, by their very nature, not human and thus not subject to our morality. Would you call a wildfire evil? How about a tornado, or a tidal wave? I would argue that, with perhaps the exception of Ramuh and Shiva, the Primals are acting purely on their elemental natures. These elements do not care about the invaders, they just want them purged from Eorzea.

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Originally Posted by Alukah

I thought the Sahagin were native to the indigo deep, plus we know other people lived there long ago, like the nymians, so can you provide a source?

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tbh, I haven't done enough of the Sahagin quests to really have an idea of what's going on with them, but I have done many of the Limsan quests, including the ones that indicate that the Sahagin lived in that area first because it used to be completely submerged. I will do more research, though. I do know,though, that the Admiral admits that relations with the Sahagin have deteriorated because the Limsans began pushing into Sahagin territories. Also, Merlwyb is clearly over the line here; she doesn't care if it's Limsa's fault that there are hostilities and would happily kill all Sahagin to the last for threatening her town. That could be considered evil, too... but the Grand Companies are all considered the good guys.

Wildfires , Tsunamis, and Tornadoes don't have intelligent thought like the primals do. I highly doubt leviathan thinks about nothing but creating Tsunamis because that's his "Elemental Nature". Every primal has goals and a means to achieve those goals. Elements I nature do not. Is a Tornado sadistic and ruthless like Garuda? Nope. Does titan decide one day to go face roll Limsa just because they're on his land nope? See where I'm going?

Nothing is moral in eorazea. Other then syphs, kobolts. The rest rest of of the other tribes are fine. Except for ixali andmal jaa