FF14's path hauntly similar to SWTOR

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Originally Posted by Madruck

unless SE learns from past MMO failures, they are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past.

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SE has virtually no domestic competition in this market. Their players prefer to play on console and the only serious competition is from a game they also own. They don't need -any- non-Japanese subscriptions to remain profitable. They never had any hope of retaining jaded Western MMO players that hop from game to game, but it never mattered in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Gardthorne

SE has virtually no domestic competition in this market. Their players prefer to play on console and the only serious competition is from a game they also own. They don't need -any- non-Japanese subscriptions to remain profitable. They never had any hope of retaining jaded Western MMO players that hop from game to game, but it never mattered in the first place.

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Well, Final Fantasy the Franchise is the preeminent J-RPG in the world. So it makes sense that it would be more marketable in Japan than in the rest of the world. The problem is that most Western RPG's these days follow the Free To Play Model. Meanwhile a vast majority of Asian MMORPG's tend to follow the subscription model for one reason or another. One of those reasons being that in many Asian Countries Gambling is illegal, and various items that are sold in the Free to Play Cash Shops follow the Gambling Model.

1 - MMORPGs, such as FFXIV, are supposed to be about the experience from lvl 1 to top lvl. This isn't FPS, this isnt' RTS, this isn't racing.
2 - The mentality of the gaming community nowadays, that one to whom the only things that matter in a game is the "end game", forces dev teams to add lockouts. The developers spend years building a rich world with deep lore just so players can rush through everything and come to the forums complain there isn't nothing to do at the end-game.
3 - Gamers nowadays are exteremely dellusional with their expectations for any game.

A good reading: http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/wow...-firefall-dev/

http://img.4plebs.org/boards/x/image...5862253155.jpg

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Originally Posted by Edenholt

1 - MMORPGs, such as FFXIV, are supposed to be about the experience from lvl 1 to top lvl.

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You're close. What you mean to say is RPG, not necessarily mmorpg.

Offline, single-player games are lore-driven. You want to hear a story. You can take things at your own pace and no one will ever know how slow or fast you are, or how many times you attempt an encounter. An MMO is a whole different animal. The social aspect of overcoming obstacles with other people is the primary reason a person will choose an mmo over an offline rpg. If it was just about lore and story, there's many offline titles for that.

The reason SWTOR failed wasn't because of EA's greed, it was because BioWare is a company that designs a really, REALLY good single-player experience. SE is also a company that designs a really, REALLY good single-player experience. Translating many of these RPG elements into group-based play is a huge challenge and there are going to be a lot of growing pains. Some of them SE really should just follow what WoW did. I know it's blasphemy, but when I see them making the same mistakes that Blizzard did, and seeing the same exact complaints from players ten years later, it becomes frustrating that they insist on pretending these are brand new issues that they alone need to figure out.

So in short - yes they need to get a handle on modern mmo structure and systems. However, the sky is not falling. This is still a better group experience than anything in SWTOR was, and that's largely because SE did have some mmo experience before delving into the genre. Really the only reason to play through SWTOR was another opportunity to hear Jennifer Hale's gravelly voice and after that... Well I'm waiting for Mass Effect 4.

I don't think there is any issue in them creating an enjoyable leveling experience. In all, I'd say the experience in FFXIV:ARR for leveling is vastly superior to SWTORs. However, once max level is reached, the storytelling experience is expended and the focus must be more on encounter design. They really have something going with the guildhests in that they provide different kinds of RPG encounters rather than the typical linear gauntlet of trash to boss repetition. If they had worked more on that and other kinds of unique encounters not found in other MMORPGs, I think they could have extended the end game experience for a lot of people. They just aren't doing that at the moment, but I am hopeful that they are listening to the community.

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Originally Posted by Gardthorne

SE has virtually no domestic competition in this market. Their players prefer to play on console and the only serious competition is from a game they also own. They don't need -any- non-Japanese subscriptions to remain profitable. They never had any hope of retaining jaded Western MMO players that hop from game to game, but it never mattered in the first place.

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I think this is the key fact right here. FFXIV's lifespan is being extended due to it being arguably the best CONSOLE MMORPG on the market right now - a demographic still in its infancy. Using a tried and true model on a new demographic will, in theory, produce the first-time experience many had with EQ, UO, or XI, or WoW. The staggered release between PC, PS3, and PS4 lengthened the games influence AND lifespan by quite a bit

Try to imagine what would happen (however unlikely) if WoW went cross-platform with X1 and PS4, minus the elitism and "PC master race" debates. Imagine if SWTOR had a staggered cross-platform release. The OP makes a very compelling post with the similarities that even I believe, but SE's current success is a result of good timing and planning with their release, and not a result of "I like the game so it's here to stay!" like what is implied by many people, in my opinion.

I completely believe Gardthorne, also. If things turn sour for any reason, SE could pull the plug on every server outside Japan and still make a profit. They have priorities, like everyone else, but they're also smart enough to have a safety net.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

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Actually I have no great interest in people saying WoW isn't or is dead or why you think people dissatisfied with Wow won't leave, but thank you for sharing I suppose. That is great that you have viewed it dead since BC but the game is still ticking 3, going on 4, expansions later and in many ways has only improved in my opinion. If WoW went back to the days of BC sub counts would most likely plummet because MMO players just aren't in the same mindset as they were years ago.

On topic, I was making a point to the OP that comparing XIV to SWTOR in the manner that he was wasn't indicative of this game's death. One example being XIV had no where near the level of bugs that plagued SWTOR raid endgame, and PVP in the two games was set up in clearly different manners in that faction imbalance on servers lead to endless hours of huttball.

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Originally Posted by Edenholt

1 - MMORPGs, such as FFXIV, are supposed to be about the experience from lvl 1 to top lvl. This isn't FPS, this isnt' RTS, this isn't racing.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

You're close. What you mean to say is RPG, not necessarily mmorpg.

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The vast majority of Pencil and Paper RPG's do not have a traditional leveling system like the one found in D&D. The fact that most MMORPG's use a leveling system is actually something of an anomaly in my opinion because while D&D is the oldest RPG in the world, it really isn't necessarily the most successful one in the world. In fact both Call of Cthulu and Vampire the Masquerade (aka World of Darkness) are both considered better games by a large swath of people than Dungeons and Dragons. Neither CoC, nor World of Darkness (the latter as per my last experience in the game a few years ago) use a traditional leveling system the way that D&D does.

In short, Pencil and Paper games, successful ones, are more story driven than they are level driven. The fact that most MMORPG's are level driven I think has more to do with the probability that most of the world's Video Game designers have more experience with D&D and WoW by proxy than they do with the worlds various alternative Role Playing Game Models, a large chunk of which don't use levels to track a players experience.

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Originally Posted by Tharian

The problem is that most Western RPG's these days follow the Free To Play Model. Meanwhile a vast majority of Asian MMORPG's tend to follow the subscription model for one reason or another. One of those reasons being that in many Asian Countries Gambling is illegal

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I don't know about that...I feel like western MMO pretty much pushed for F2P model because F2P was trending in Asian MMO so strongly. I've been trying out F2P MMO on and off since my FFXI WOTG days and all of them have been an Asian MMO (Korean and Japanese). I don't know a single Asian MMO that thrived on sub model beside FFXI and recently FFXIV:ARR.

Also, I believe online gambling is still illegal in some form in the US. One of the Japanese F2P MMO I played had to remove any casino themed setup to comply with the law. Just my 2cent.