In need of alternative endgame content

As someone who loves to craft, he's right crafting isn't end game. It's a completely different form of play. It would be like someone complaining about matchmaking wait times in a fps and being told "but you can play bejeweled on the launcher screen so what are you complaining about." Some people like to craft, some people like to do battles, some people like both. But they aren't substitutions for each other they are supplemental.

So... you want more content that the majority of players still can't complete unless echo arrives? And will flood complaints on the forums for massive nerfs because its too hard.

Reality is, the endgame content that we are doing, a majority still can't do for reasons of their own. If they add easier end game content, then you'd burn through it and complain. I don't see a win.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

A) design content faster

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I enjoyed the read, as you had several valid points to give out (some of which I agree with, such as the linear progression), until you stated the quoted part. Short of hiring many more people, and bringing on a second director to the team, it's not something that can be made a reality. The 3-month expectations for content patches is actually very impressive as is with a game like this. Real world work conditions, the fact that it's people doing the work, and that there's only one director (who also travels frequently, as that's part of his job) makes it unreasonable to say that they need to "design content faster".

The problem you point out isn't necessarily that the content is lacking (because it really isn't if you include non-endgame/raid related material... which you really should), but rather that the direction of the game is the problem. What if content were rather limited in ilvl reward? What if progression rewards were upgrades, but in a minimal sense? That's kind of how games like XI and WoW (vanilla) worked. Although with WoW, raiding was pretty linear and WAY more restrictive. I don't think people would be happy with XIV if content were designed for 40-man groups or the like. Even exclusive 24-man content might be too demanding in this day and age, as even WoW struggles with their 25-man raid activity currently. Some FCs would be fine on that, but I'm quite certain that nearly every one of those people would naturally think that everyone should be fine with it too.

Bottomline is that no matter what they do, in a realistic sense, people will complain. Go to any game and I can guarantee you will find the following complaints at some point in time: "Not enough content", "Too easy", "Too hard", "Catering to the casuals", "'I'm quitting because of X complaint' threads", and so on.

We're stupidly predictable and never pleased. It's the way business works. This is why devs generally stick to their ideas without following their consumers demands without question. Unless it's an important, but broken system (which it really isn't), the devs just don't have much reason to go against the way they want their own game to work. If you've ever worked with others, or dealt with the public in general from a professional standing, you'd also realize how insulting the intelligence is of your fellow man and why we (the consumer) are not as smart (or right) as we like to think we are.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Considering how EVERY top-end progression group goes in crafted HQ penta melded gear in each new extension of the Coil, I think you're greatly underestimating crafting.

Though it's only a matter of days before it becomes obsolete after each patch if you are dedicated enough. but crafted i90 pentamelded > everything i90-i100 you can get within 2 weeks. It <ill be the same at 2.4 with i110 crafted vs previous i110 gear

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So crafters have to wait 6 months for new higher iLvl recipes to come out so they can compete along side gear that has been available for the previous 6 months?

If crafters were given iLvl recipes that were the same iLvL as the gear dropped in coil, that is end game progression for crafting. Right now all Craftign recipes are ~6 months behind the current iLvL. I'm sorry but I'm not going to argue if crafting should be considered endgame or not. Clearly I don't, you do.

SE needs to add alternative routes of progression that doesn't prohibit the availability of playable content. We all know how lockouts on coil work, it's a problem the prevents me or others to play an important aspect of the game once that content is done. There should be several alternatives for progression available for such circumstances.

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Originally Posted by illuminapanic

So... you want more content that the majority of players still can't complete unless echo arrives? And will flood complaints on the forums for massive nerfs because its too hard.

Reality is, the endgame content that we are doing, a majority still can't do for reasons of their own. If they add easier end game content, then you'd burn through it and complain. I don't see a win.

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Ok lets say in your FC you have a couple coil grps. What are the chances if someone says "hey anyone wanna help with t6?" It's Tuesday afternoon, I'm sure you'll see these as replies "Sorry I'm in a static." "my static is doing Coil later today/this week" or if it were later in the week the majories of replies are going to be " Sorry, cleared up to turn X" , "Can't go, grp cleared T9 yesterday."

How many of those people would have had more chances to attempt to clear a turn, or would have cleared a turn if there wasn't a weekly lock?

Keep the weekly lokc on coil with 100% loot drop. Give an alternative form of progression that isn't 100% loot drops (RNG) or gives tokens upon first clear (time sink) or 1 need/greed/week (Gear lockout) but don't remove content from the table like coil does.

back when coil had 1 week lockout i personally didn't have an issue, but it'd be nice if they implemented additional clear attempt prior to lockout for the week like 2 or 3 and like CT you get loot lockout should you win one. Gives the person 1 of 3 chance to get something or nothing, makes people capable to plan further attempts to help/sell runs and that extra soldiery wouldn't hurt.

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

Ok lets say in your FC you have a couple coil grps. What are the chances if someone says "hey anyone wanna help with t6?" It's Tuesday afternoon, I'm sure you'll see these as replies "Sorry I'm in a static." "my static is doing Coil later today/this week" or if it were later in the week the majories of replies are going to be " Sorry, cleared up to turn X" , "Can't go, grp cleared T9 yesterday."

How many of those people would have had more chances to attempt to clear a turn, or would have cleared a turn if there wasn't a weekly lock?

Keep the weekly lokc on coil with 100% loot drop. Give an alternative form of progression that isn't 100% loot drops (RNG) or gives tokens upon first clear (time sink) or 1 need/greed/week (Gear lockout) but don't remove content from the table like coil does.

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It's a lot more plausible to go with the suggestion that they remove the lockout but apply the 1 win roll system that CT has. While that also has its own potential problems... it's not as great (or demanding of work) as suggesting there needs to be more Coil-tier content.

The main problem with demanding that more be made is that things are taken out of patches that would have been enjoyable for others, so that time can be allotted to create this alternative content. Personally, I'd hate the idea of having something like the Gold Saucer or personal housing be delayed just because they needed to spend time adding something like what you suggest in the first post. Neither the Gold Saucer nor Personal Housing have anything to do with endgame, so I don't know if you folks see that as something "fun" to look forward to, but I guarantee an overwhelming majority do.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

XI had lockouts - they involved between 6-50ppl could take any amount of people and there was numerous activities to do at once. (Equally valid content with and without lockouts)

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Sorry, but FFXI's lockouts were absolutely horrible compared to what we have now. What you call "numerous activities to do at once" for a very long time was nothing more than "numerous stuff to camp where only 1 party/alliance in the whole ****ing server was able to experience said content". Even then the only reason why FFXI had these "numerous activities to do at once" was because these severe lockouts made it take a very very long time to get the best gear. We did the same stuff over and over for years because of this.

If there's something that they should change it's to change Coil's lockout to the item lockout that CT used and will use for the next section.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Sorry, but FFXI's lockouts were absolutely horrible compared to what we have now.

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Um... 72 hour lock out on Dynamis, I think is was 48 on Limbus, SKY and SEA was combo of 1-3 hours spawns and force pop NM. Salvage was 24 hour lock out, Nyzul Isle was based on tokens acquired.

So in XIV we have 168 hour lock out on out 1 highest tier content and no lock out on stuff that by in large doesn't matter any more.

XI maybe have taken a long time to get 1 certain item you were looking for, but there was alternatives to getting similar gear available, and you could involve multiple groups if needed.

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

Give an alternative form of progression that isn't 100% loot drops (RNG) or gives tokens upon first clear (time sink) or 1 need/greed/week (Gear lockout) but don't remove content from the table like coil does.

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Let me direct you to Atma => Animus => Novus and Levi EX (RNG + time sink) and CT2 (Gear Lock).