Q34: Please implement a DPS tool and a feature that shows a monster’s HP %.

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Originally Posted by TheCurls

In this scenario, do you need a dps meter?

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Somewhat irrelevant. You made the statement that:

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Originally Posted by TheCurls

If the boss doesn't die, -everyone- needs to dps harder. Yes, even you.

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Unless what you actually mean is "If the boss doesn't die, that guy who sucks needs to dps harder." But that's not what you said. So, which is it? Do we need to struggle to carry people who suck, or does everyone have an onus to play to the best of their ability?

DPS Counter on dummies and in coil would be my preference. Anything outside of coil can be killed no matter what setup you are running except maybe Levi EX.

What I actually mean is what I said. Why is the burden off your shoulders? If the boss doesn't die, you should try harder. So should the other guy. Now, if someone is doing as poorly as you used in your example, then the -best- option is to give advice. Don't trash, insult, namecall, bully. Say "Hey, if you use Straight Shot first, it increases your crit chance for every skill you use after. Another good idea is to keep your DoTs up so when they crit, you get an instant reset of Bloodletter. That will make the boss die faster."

In the more likely scenario where everyone's busting their asses, some people will be higher on dps (either from player skill or by how easy a time a specific job has on any given fight) and some will be lower. The difference will not be that great.

Why do you need a dps meter when my advice will work 100% of the time? "If the boss doesn't die, -everyone- needs to dps harder. Yes, even you."

I do like the discussions going on in this thread. I perceive two passionate points of view:
1) No we don't need DPS meters during battles in duties because of fear of it being used for picking out the weakest dps'er.
2) Yes we need a DPS meter for battles in duties so we can single out faster the weakest link and take appropriate action, including possibly vote kick that player out of the group.

Katja has pointed out the right mentality to have when players are in a group---> IS PLAY AS A GROUP. It has to be dynamic.

PERFECT SOLUTION: Add the DPS meter on training dummies. Take the time to test certain rotations out with friends and see which one has the highest score. Why is this fare? Because there are no other factors taken in consideration. DPS meter in duties will never confirm how good a team-player anyone is.

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Originally Posted by TheCurls

Why do you need a dps meter when my advice will work 100% of the time? "If the boss doesn't die, -everyone- needs to dps harder. Yes, even you."

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Because that's not advice that will work 100% of the time? The fact is, thinking up a counter-example is trivially easy. Any time one person is incapable of eking out more DPS but the boss isn't dying, your advice fails.

Besides, both of us thus far have been using extreme examples. I'm never going to be in a party where 3/4 members are playing correctly; and a BRD that isn't using Straight Shot or dots is, yes, below what you need a parser to measure. But what about the in-between cases? Where you can tell that one person is playing a little above average and the other a little below. Mechanically, it should be easier for the below-average to improve, even if the *how* isn't as blindingly obvious as "use your dots." Why would we not want a tool that lets us know when this is the case?

Because, as stated, it depends on the fight and the class/job of the player. Gears is also a factor.

I've seen a tank rage on WP because both DD were "bad", because their DPS was below average (he used a DPS meter apparantly cause he was giving numbers...).
Now, in context :
Tank was I90, I (healer) was I92, DPS were I50 at most, first WP for both of them...
Tank tried to speed run and took 9 mobs together, DPS were a monk and an Invoker...
After the first wipe, he rage quit giving DPS count for each, shouting they were noob... They were noob indeed, but their DPS was OK considering their gear... (in fact tank didn't used his CD well too and couldn't keep aggro away from me, he wasn't better)

And that what kind of problem a DPS meter could cause. It has to be factored by the ilevel or it will be miss-interpreted.

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Originally Posted by TheCurls

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while i myself dont like them, they can be useful. and sometimes, people just dont take advice. what do you do if someone constantly makes something harder then it needs to be by not playing the class/job to at least average ability? a bard using only straight shot, and ignoring putting dots on something, or a arc/smn only using ruin and not putting dots. a drg barely breaking 100 dps, not using heavy thrust or combos. in these three situations, you could be met with "dont tell me how to play, i do what i want", no matter how nice you would put the advice. a meter could just help you see that faster, tho with the enemy taking longer to die, you will be able to see it without even having one. a parser will just let you see why things are taking as long as they are.

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Originally Posted by Aura_Shurifon

And that what kind of problem a DPS meter could cause. It has to be factored by the ilevel or it will be miss-interpreted.

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I can almost guarantee you that, even without a parser, he would have done the same thing. Parsers don't inflict stupid, believe it or not. . .

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Originally Posted by TheCurls

Now, if someone is doing as poorly as you used in your example, then the -best- option is to give advice. Don't trash, insult, namecall, bully. Say "Hey, if you use Straight Shot first, it increases your crit chance for every skill you use after. Another good idea is to keep your DoTs up so when they crit, you get an instant reset of Bloodletter. That will make the boss die faster."

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Every single time I try giving advice, in DF or PF alike, I get told 9/10 times "I know how to play my job" as they repeatedly shrug off advice and continue being terrible. I want to see those kinds of people fail forever.

It can't get any worse for "those people". They are already shunned by people who parse on the down-low, and idiots who think they know what's wrong in a party when it's themselves. It can only get better for people who are looking for hard evidence to improve themselves.

Just last night I filled in for a friend in Turn 9 on SMN, with another SMN there. I rarely play SMN so I was slacking in the first few attempts. Over the night, both I and the other SMN improved dramatically as we "compared notes", so to speak. It was evident that I did less damage than him despite better gear, so I pushed myself and pulled ahead. Because I care about improving myself.

Here's my stance on the DPS Meter.

If it was implemented it should only be at a Training Dummy. Players that care enough to increase party effeciency will use it to train/practice. Players that could care less wont use it.
An in dungeon DPS Meter would cause less efficient players to be called out and/or trolled.
I think a Dummy Meter would be enough of a tool that the majority of DD players will get better without the need to center them out. A lot of people just don't understand the DD mechanics, but having a visual tool it's easy to understand a higher number is better.