PLD feels underwhelming lately

While I agree that both, WAR and PLD are a bit lacking (As is every other class in the game, IMO); I feel WAR is probably more underwhelming than PLD.
As a PLD, I usually feel far more secured with my actions and rotations/patterns than I do as WAR. Which typically allows me to do other "side" things that I normally wouldn't "have" to do as a tank.
As a WAR, I am basically tanking and sweating. Hoping that IB isn't mistimed or that I use that HG at the perfect time, etc.

I'd vote to try and make WAR abilities more stable by improving their cooldown/duration, rather than mess around with PLD at the moment, if I had to vote on one of the two.
But if I had things my way, I'd radically change not just the tank classes, but all classes.
There is so much that could be adjusted for the better, I could write you a book about it.

Anyway...

Did you put your 30 stat points into STR, VIT or even DEX or split them up?
Initially, 30 VIT. Then I split between VIT and STR. Then back to 30 VIT.

Do you go for max parry or forget about it and aim for high Det/Crit?
I max parry usually, unless I have to sacrifice for accuracy.

Use some DD acessories instead of tank stuff?
No. Unless more than 1 tank isn't needed. Then I go full DD stuff.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

Play more end game. PLD just have more tools...for everything.

Wars have better upkeep but matters very little in endgame. SE doesn't like warriors...or perhaps they are continuing to evaluate how they design fights. 2.2 is far more fairer then 2.1, but still a far cry, from war anything.

Heck pretty much every content in 2.0 and 2.1 is completely war-phobic.

PLD is king of end game, and that's not on paper.

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It stands true for pre-endgame as well. Additionally, a lot of people seem to be ignoring the RoH debuff which, though not effective as Path, is a thing that exists. On top of that, the fact that IB is effectively just shield block on demand and that it more or less just turns a Warrior into a paladin with just shield oath and 25% extra HP for six seconds is also a thing- While doing lower Coils on a Paladin, especially with Echo, if you legitimately need that extra Warrior 25% or 20% reduction your healer is probably a huge mess.

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Originally Posted by Kyana

And yet, you seem to prefer WAR while your PLD is only lvl35. No offense, just an observation.

Yes, I've yet to get to 2nd Coil, so I don't know how well WAR and PLD work in there.
But the difference I experienced myself, when tanking endgame stuff with either PLD or WAR, was minimal at best so far.

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Paladin is boring. Warrior is a lot more involved and takes a hell of a lot more thought to do well. Preferences are sort of irrelevant on the matter.

Warrior is easy to compensate for by design, which in and of itself says a lot really.

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Originally Posted by Kyana

A WAR can keep up Storm's Eye and Storm's Path debuffs while keeping hate, healing himself and dealing dmg.
No matter which combo used, the WAR builds up wrath till he can use Inner Beast.
That's -20% dmg for 6 seconds every ~13 seconds and additional heal. PLD's Rampart lasts for 20 seconds but also has a 90 seconds cooldown.
But that's not important.

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This is just me nitpicking, but at best you can get IB on a 13 second cooldown (Providing you use veng and zerk specifically for wrath stacks and have Selene.), and with no cooldowns for Wrath you are looking at around 19 seconds bare minimum, starting count with no combo. IB is a huge tool towards equalization and we are in a better spot than we were 2.0, but it is by no means the be all end all that a lot of people seem to think it is.

The heal is trivial at best, but I'll give that if you keep spamming it maybe you'll get a lucky hit that isn't automatically overhealed anyway. Eye IS useful, without a doubt though and the 10% reduction on path(Though it really should never have been taken off Rain of Death) is good too.

Further, putting aside that it not being usable on most bosses(Which is simply not true), the diminishing returns only last for 20 seconds after the last successful stun was applied. That is, with twenty seconds downtime on stunnable bosses you have about nine seconds of not taking damage. Let's not even bring up the practicality of Stoneskin(It's actually amazing, by the way. Use it as much as you can.), the fact that your AoE enmity tool essentially gives you Featherfoot, or that post 2.1 nearly all Warrior skills are just are just adapted to do what Paladin can already do automatically with no extra effort. Heyoooooo

The part where Paladins don't have a second combo to use is because they -don't need one-, a Warrior on tank will deal significantly higher dps than a on tank Pally, and(Unless OT Pally is a jerk, especially on swaps, and refuses to stance juggle) enmity should outright be a non issue unless it's a 2x paladin setup. Which, even then, I haven't ever actually had any issues with. A Paladin does not need an equivalent to Storm's Path/Eye, because it already has the secondary damage down effect built in an the enmity when not tanking is(Or, again, unless your other tank is fairly bad.) completely irrelevant.



....Also, to answer what you asked earlier, the most effective way I've found to define the "vit/str Do you need it?" issue is to start with vit. Because vit is your HP and absolutely nothing else, every time you go into a fight and don't fall below a multiple of 15(or 18, on a Warrior) of HP is that much vit being totally worthless that you don't need. So you find you don't fall below 150 hp? That's 10 vit that could be better used as str. Never fall below 1500? 100 str you could be having without being dead. Of course, you should maintain a buffer of sorts but it's actually not possible to go low enough that you don't have one just by using a full str allocation at 50, i90 armor/weapon and gryphonskin accessories. Every piece of i100 armor just makes it a little bit more of a moot issue.

And more on topic, not that Paladin doesn't need tweaks too. But it is in a lot less of a "needs tweaks" position than Warrior which was more or less the point of the derailing, I think. Awareness should be tweaked, Savage Blade shouldn't be cross classable (The only job that crosses gladiator is...... Warrior. And Marauder has the identical cross classable Skull Sunder for everyone wanting to use classes instead.) Shield and Sword Oath could be condensed to a single skill that switches between the two.(And leaving with one or the other always on as long as you were a Paladin. Which should be the case anyway.) Enhanced Awareness is a completely wasted trait. Except Foresight and...... Sort of Bloodbath, maybe, there's really nothing for Paladin from the Marauder cross class skillset too. Most of these are borderline QoL though.

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Originally Posted by Alphras

Well i'm all for making the Paladin more diverse and fun to play, but there shouldn't be any changes that make the Paladin more survivable.

The two tank classes are very close in terms of balancing at the moment and it should stay that way.

Edit: I think i would give them a follow up attack for Riot Blade, that applies a buff that deals additional magic dmg with each attack or something.

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Maybe a few small changes. I think they need better AoE damage and threat, they're really behind the warrior in that regard now. I also think they should swap shield oath and sword oath at 30 due to threat imbalances between the two classes at the 30-40 level dungeons (or better yet, make sword oath a GLD skill, shield oath the level 30 PLD skill and make sentinel or bulwark the level 40 PLD skill in order to better prepare GLD to get a 2nd DPS job! ... i know, wishful thinking)

But I would caution against making them much more complex. I think it's a good idea to have a tank class that's more straightforward where the rotation is pretty easy. The tank class can be intimidating for some, and would prefer to concentrate on the fight mechanics instead of worrying about their rotation, extra resources (wrath) or using abilities in combination to maximize effectiveness. Because of the tank shortage, it's nice to have an option that's less complex for those people.

I honestly dont feel like WAR is alot more complex then PLD.
There's just alot more options for every situation. Maybe that's just me.

How do you define more complex then? If one class has more options than another for the same job, it is more complex in my book (mind you tanking isn't really complex for both jos).

Edit: And Warrior has the more complex ressource mechanic too. In my opinion the Paladin could use some more options while tanking, so that they need to make more decisions.

Because using things correctly with WAR is just a bonus over PLD from what ive experienced.
Even something like IB timing is no different for me over using a cd on PLD cause of the lag eu gets, i need to know when the hits come on both.

Let's not say WAR is more complex then. It's rather simple structure just as is PLD. HOWEVER, Warrior is far more active in the face of danger as opposed to Paladin. But then again, it's a matter of the situation at hand. Put a Paladin in a multi-mob scenario? It's going to take a bit of work to keep the hate on them because you can't just Steel Cyclone/Overpower. Put a Warrior in a Single Hard Hitting Boss? You have to managed your CD properly because you will take far more damage than a Paladin will. Not saying one or the other is harder. Just putting them outside their comfort zones makes it -slightly- more difficult.

That's just how I see it though~

i prefer playing pld over war. after several second coil of bahamut turn 1(i dont call it t6 cause there is no t6 lol) attempts with me as main tank pld and the war being off tank, we added and crunched all the numbers and the war beat my average dps by 4% but he also took about 40,000 more damage than i did. i actually had to switch between sword and shield oath frequently to not strip hate from him. it seemed like when he had rafflesia the healers had to be more on top of him than me. ive always thought the bigass hp vs multiple mitigation play style was the only difference aside from using mp or tp to keep aggro. though pld ultimate mitigation cooldown seems far superior to war "at least i cant die" cooldown. as for stats i use 10 str/20 vit despite people saying full vit is better even though block str is far better than 200 or so hp.

Well what matters more in this game is not the amount of dmg youve taken over the whole fight, but are you alive and did it stress your healers more.
And what ive seen theres no difference.

You should compare them based on the outgoing amount of healing needed. There is no point in comparing the two jobs based on the amount of damage received (or received healing).