Common sense when positioning monsters

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

I like when people tank KB on the west so I don't have to move the first IG but ehh, the vast majority of people are stuck on north so I roll with it. It's a lot easier than arguing with them, that's for sure. *shrugs*

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I'd rather KB be tanked west, and have BRDs on the two closest towers. A BRD can man a tower while losing little in the way of dps, and increasing raid dps by whatever that tank can contribute. Plus, if IG tank dies, you could just have one of the two free tanks run over and pick it up.

But people think I'm crazy for trying to take a tower on BRD. >_>

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

I'd rather KB be tanked west, and have BRDs on the two closest towers. A BRD can man a tower while losing little in the way of dps, and increasing raid dps by whatever that tank can contribute. Plus, if IG tank dies, you could just have one of the two free tanks run over and pick it up.

But people think I'm crazy for trying to take a tower on BRD. >_>

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No actually that makes sense. BRD have insanely long range. PLD dps may not be great, but damage is damage.

When IG is down I typically help kill adds for exactly that reason. Less bombs getting to towers = good. :3

I get what your saying Classical but sometimes the noob may also be to the mmo genre like I am sad as it is. It is a bit of awasted opportunity I think to have many tank quests end up being 1 on 1 battles where Flash is pointless to practice using since I already have hate. I use flash a lot but it's effectiveness is only really noticeable in a team dynamic where I'm expected to spam it. It doesn't help to be making mistakes when others are relying on you but at the same time I don't want to be googling every text and stat table. I used to for other FF games but stopped when it began to overshadow gameplay. I've actually deleted my tank and started again with a THM. I was put off continuing by the negativity. As per my original post the negativity when it comes possibly and probably will demotivate noobs to persevere. Constructive criticism is always better but not many know how to give it.

Of course, there are those players who don't care but I think it all depends on the person playing the tank. I mean if the player is new to MMO and choose to tank first, there is some chance that he doesn't understand the mechanics as well as another experienced player in MMO, even if that one did not ever tanked before. Especially if anybody did'nt tell him anything. I am leveling currently a WAR and the enimity mechanic is not clear at all from the quests: you are fighting alone or with an NPC that doesn't die (I am sure that the NPC can perform the quest alone XD). I understand what the quests are for but it is also because I already knew it. Also if this new tank is struggling to hold aggro, because he doesn't understand mechanics, I am not sure he is able to watch to other people in the party. In Aurum Vale, I had this tank who was facing the last boss towards the party (I don't remeber well but I think the healer was new also as he didn't move). We wiped. Then I just told him that it is a good habit to face the mobs away from the party, especially the healer. He did and we were doing fine. I think that he was a new player and nobody never told him anthing.

Also, most guides are focusing on stats, rotations and so forth. But it is hard (well I never saw one) to find one that talks about basic features such as positioning mobs, waiting to dps or whatever. They all assume that the player already knows the basics which is not really true. When you were learning maths, for instance, did you learn first to do addition or directly vector spaces?

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Originally Posted by Lewena

...Also, most guides are focusing on stats, rotations and so forth. But it is hard (well I never saw one) to find one that talks about basic features such as positioning mobs, waiting to dps or whatever. They all assume that the player already knows the basics which is not really true.

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This is Truth. I didn't learn about mob/enemy position on the job. I was semi-intelligent and came to the forum first. That's where I learned it was my responsibility to control which way the mob/enemy faced, and where to place them in a fight.

How many people come to th4e forums before they begin having problems? How many people accept in-game criticism? Who *gives* good in-game criticism during an instanced battle or duty?

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Originally Posted by Wadoka

Who *gives* good in-game criticism during an instanced battle or duty?

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I try to, but, then, I have to balance all of it around the fact that I'm really sarcastic by nature, so I have to tone it way down and/or add smilies. >_>

Hello. If the tank is not positioning well a boss or mob, you can tell him, he might not have noticed the problem or be new at the place.

In CT some people remind the tank in jokes not to put the Valefor's tail looking to the group, just in case the tank is new. If the tank says he is new the other tank can explain a bit too. Many CT problems are caused by lack of communication.

In low level dungeons it may well be the tank is new or he is too busy trying to survive and is concentrating in other more urgent things (from his point of view) and forgets to place the boss where he can be well attacked by melee DPS or will not throw an attack to the group.

A quick ask can make him do it right (if he manages to read the chat log before a wipe...lol)

The more exp somebody has in a place, the more aware to every aspect of the fight he will be, the better he will place the boss, knows his attacks, he can anticipate where the adds are going to spawn and place the boss in advance, etc.

When things go south problems usually accumulate. Normally it's not just the tank has placed the boss badly, he probably is in low health and the rest of the party too, he might be worried about losing hate to an add, the healer is overloaded with work, casters are moving around avoiding attacks and can't cast well, etc.

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Originally Posted by Classikal

Also, what's with tanks lately wanting to play Merry-Go-Round with the mob? It's really annoying when the tank circles around the mob like 5-6 times where there isn't even a red area to dodge.

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Maybe they think it ups their dodge rate? Was hilarious when I thought that in FFXI ;).

I find it no different than the dps who demand you go faster to the point they believe they should pull new mobs for you.

Some people just don't care about what others want and will shoot themselves in the foot because of it.

Also it can be scary when DPS dont give you time to adjust the monsters to a safe and convenient location (and then wonder why all the monsters suddenly ping pong everywhere).

Most of the time they might genuinely not know much about tanking so wouldn't hurt to give them a bit of advice.

I'm horrible at this but I try and over pull so I can get better so I'm on the brink of death and have to dodge aoes. Idc though lol. Basic stuff like pulling out of dots or whatever sure but positioning more than two enemies? Not my problem

I am sorry but this thread makes me cringe a little bit as a tank, dps, and a healer.

I always follow a general rule to face away from the group. Almost everything has a frontal attack why would you face that towards anyone especially with it's back against a wall. Some fights may call for this but they are extremely rare. So why not have the boss etc, positioned to have your healers/dps on flank or rear.

Also as tanks we can't position for every possible/potential aoe. DPS will have to get creative, and adjust accordingly. As a Dragoon I was able to find that the range of being on the flank/rear of enemies wasn't an exact science. There was all sorts of wiggle room to being able to get impulse drive or heavy thrust off. I would ask the tank to move or re-position, then yell at the tank to re-position but it wouldn't happen. So I would either steal threat intentionally or just suck it up.

As a healer when I watch the portrayed behaviors... they become a dead tank. Depending on the dungeon I will have an easier time healing two dps then a dumb tank and two dps due to bad positioning or merry go round behaviors. In Dzemael Darkhold I had a tank who wasn't tanking in the light. The dps followed me and waited for him to die then when everything came our direction we burned it down.

But lastly it isn't safe to assume that tanks know how to tank every fight. I screwed up IG's because I didn't know any better and no one cares to explain anything in CT. Sometimes a little guidance goes a long way.