Parry...

I think the real lesson here, is that stacking most anything in this game is generally worthless. And is definitely detrimental if you are stacking something and gimping other stats in the process.
Parry is good, but is not the end all be all. I would rather have a little bit of parry, a little bit of determination, a little bit of crit. Than max parry. I also agree with the OP about most of his points.
I think people are in general trying to theorycraft a bit too hard, and in the end just grab as many secondary stats as you can, while avoiding skill speed. = Win

I gear my PLD acc to cap > parry > det because crit is RNG and I don't feel I can stack enough to really see an improvement. For WAR, who innately carries crit bonuses, I would probably go acc > parry > crit. The new tier of tank gear is itemized pretty weird. A ton of speed pieces. Most pieces without speed have parry so meh.

I would think accuracy is an overrated stat, as you'd have to be missing pretty badly and routinely to lose threat, and there's typically plenty of accuracy on gear to keep a tank afloat. It's more a DPS stat than a tank stat, although I would definitely take accuracy over Det.

There's very little information I can pull up to separate practical effect of accuracy (which only affects dps, and by proxy, threat hold) for tanks from min/maxer theorycrafting (which grossly overrates immeasurably small, borderline subjective gains). Best in Slot is largely an empirical factor for the role: Tanks absorb and deflect damage, so it's about Parry as the only defense-oriented secondary stat. If you are not having issues holding threat, you don't need more Accuracy or Determination.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZDamned

You have the absolute most valid point in the thread against my argument.

---

Even then one could argue the value of that Parry versus another stat say Crit even if they yielded the same % increase. In the case of crits you could argue that you hit 2-3 times in-between (most) enemy attacks (Both WS and AA) and since the tank typically is immobile in most situations they typically have more opportunities to crit than most jobs. Whereas Shields will only block/parry physical based attacks, enemies typically attack slower, and unless you're in a scenario where multiple mobs are attacking you the value of parry standalone is pretty diminished, though it's still better than skill speed in nearly every scenario because SS stacks so poorly and it's worth can be heavily gauged on a persons precision timing. I'm not saying there aren't situations where it can be useful compared to more competitive stats, but those situations can be few and far in-between.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zourin

I would think accuracy is an overrated stat, as you'd have to be missing pretty badly and routinely to lose threat, and there's typically plenty of accuracy on gear to keep a tank afloat. It's more a DPS stat than a tank stat, although I would definitely take accuracy over Det.

There's very little information I can pull up to separate practical effect of accuracy (which only affects dps, and by proxy, threat hold) for tanks from min/maxer theorycrafting (which grossly overrates immeasurably small, borderline subjective gains). Best in Slot is largely an empirical factor for the role: Tanks absorb and deflect damage, so it's about Parry as the only defense-oriented secondary stat. If you are not having issues holding threat, you don't need more Accuracy or Determination.

---

It's obvious you have not tanked Coil based on your statement. 1 Miss on a Paladin, or Warrior re-sets your combo, and you will miss 20+% of the time if your below the magic number required for Coil enemies. 1-4 being 471, and 5 being 480. Turn 6 seems 490 according to many sources, and my fight last night I was at 500 without a miss.
Missing on that combo WILL result in early hate being ripped off. You can argue that people just need to wait, but fights enrage, and healers still need to heal. Missing even once will get a healer killed early in a raid fight.
4-Man dungeons, and CT don't actually require accuracy, Neither do most of the Primals, save for Leviathan Extreme.

My point being, Accuracy is the single most important stat in the game for anyone who runs Coil, barring healers, and that's even more so true for Tanks. Even the new healer gear has accuracy on it too now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZDamned

you will miss 20+% of the time if your below the magic number required for Coil enemies. 1-4 being 471, and 5 being 480. Turn 6 seems 490 according to many sources, and my fight last night I was at 500 without a miss.

---

Which I can immediately tell you is inaccurate, if not highly misleading. Even Turn 1 can be done with 420 accuracy with zero threat issues and no whiffing/combo problems, which is a far cry from your churlish estimates.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zourin

Which I can immediately tell you is inaccurate, if not highly misleading. Even Turn 1 can be done with 420 accuracy with zero threat issues and no whiffing/combo problems, which is a far cry from your churlish estimates.

---

Please go to Turn 2, and tank with 420 Accuracy, and tell me how it goes. Having 450 from experience, in there will drop each of the ADS adds from you due to lack of enmity. In fact, your on my server, I'll gladly rip it off you myself as a Dragoon. Please PM me in game tonight, I'll gladly show you. Pacifica Auras in the Legacy FC.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zourin

Which I can immediately tell you is inaccurate, if not highly misleading. Even Turn 1 can be done with 420 accuracy with zero threat issues and no whiffing/combo problems, which is a far cry from your churlish estimates.

---

There is a degree of luck being below the accuracy cap, just because you might not of had a problem with it does not mean the possibility of it disrupting the flow of the battle does not exist. Prior to the Shield Oath/Defiance adjustments and the enrage method becoming commonplace on T2, swapping between tanks on the Nodes/ADS had to be very controlled and accurate. I did notice I would occasionally miss a combo during a tank swap back when my group was just starting coil, which became problematic in some scenarios because the other tank was getting too many stacks and sometimes died because of it. Either way, it's alot less noticeable now because of the SO/Defiance, but shouldn't be taken for granted.

I have had a terrible experience in T2 with below 472 accuracy. Missing a provoke is huge. Missing combo's can be bad. Missing tomahawks is very bad. Accuracy cap is definitely a must. Everything else is sort of meh.

I suspect a large amount of the justification for Parry as the go-to secondary stat is based heavily on a small study I myself did back in late closed beta, which showed that Parry drastically improved parry and block rates on low level enemies. I never particularly meant the study to be anything more than a preliminary look at the Parry stat in the close-to-release game, but it found it's way onto Dancing Mad which was pretty much taken as gospel early in 2.0. The study had some pretty serious issues to be honest, as it was not preformed on high level monsters, nor did it provide a comprehensive look at a continuous spectrum of parry values. As such, I would not be at all surprised if the results I found are not completely incorrect and Parry is an awful stat to focus on.

That being said, your n is far too small. A comprehensive test of high level Parry would need tens of thousands of samples in order to be statistically meaningful. Also, your data would have to be normalized against a common control parry. You dismissed theoretical values and claimed that this experience shows a real world application of the numbers, but without the theory, your knowledge is isolated to this case. Did you parry less because you were fighting enemies of much higher level? Or was it because Parry uses a non-linear growth curve? Or is it because you had more Dex (which also modifies Parry) in one case than another?

Your findings have merit; I don't mean to say that they do not. Rather that it is far too early to draw a conclusion from them.