Questions/Theories About Coil (Long Read SPOILERS)

@RolandDebreton:

Excellent post! You summed up what I was lacking the words for. It's interesting that that their is a hierarchy of primals and opens a whole new view if Elder Primals have/had a physical form (Midgardsomr could in theory then have been an Elder Primal).

I'm shakey on Odin lore, so it's likely I was wrong in the thought that he once did exist as a mortal man, but it would be an interesting perspective if this is the case. It could also explain the origins of The Twelve. The fall of the Allagan Empire would have ushered in a dark age where civilizations actually regress. Like many mythologies of our own history, most were passed down verbally (thus accurate information being lost via communication or embellished for the sake of story or point) before being written down.

Perhaps The Twelve were Allagan survivors who performed great feats for the "lesser" races. Their heroism sparked stories. Stories sparked legends, legends sparked mythologies and escalated them to godhood when names and deeds were finally written down and circulated.

On an unrelated note, I'm excited to see what's in store for Ishgard. The Papal seems to be wholly corrupt and deems anything not to their liking heresy (Hello Rome 1096-1204) and consider their war with Dravania a Crusade. Maybe Dravanian Horde isn't as evil as it's claimed to be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marishi-Ten

Midgardsomr could in theory then have been an Elder Primal

---

I love fringe theory speculation, and I'ma let you finish, but Midgardsormr has been theorized to be a primal, and the devs said no. And then the Waning of the Sixth Sun bluray called him an elder primal by mistake, and the devs said hell no. Whatever he was, he wasn't that. (Hint: He was a dragon lord)

Since we've moved from Coil to Primals in discussion I wanted to bring up a point I noticed the other day. I was checking out the old trailer/opening for 1.0 to show someone who hadn't seen the wonderful echo traveling adventures of derplander and his merry party as well as explaining Midgarsomr's corpse in the middle of Silver Tear when I noticed something towards the end of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...YUHbHL5w#t=339

When Derplander falls after the distruction of the airship (Bismark was it?) a light is released and for a moment you can see the primals Ifrit, and Titan shoot out from the explosion, as well as TWELVE (ish) other beings. This is a really interesting concept and I want to ask has this ever really been discussed in the lore? What was the light that killed Midgarsomr? Why were the primals present then? Can Derplander use the echo to see why kids love cinnamon toast crunch?

Also he has a Great Sword. Sad Face. Where's our Great Sword class D:<

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WellGramarye

Bismark was it?

---

Agrius

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WellGramarye

as well as TWELVE (ish) other beings.

---

It's hard to tell if they meant anything by this. In part of the scene where Ifrit is unfolding, you can freeze frame at different times to see anywhere from 7 to 13 silhouettes, but when they all start flying away, I can make out at least 20 glowing projectiles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WellGramarye

What was the light that killed Midgarsomr?

---

The use of Magitek was resurrected by a people who couldn't use the magi part of that combo, so they replaced the fuel source with ceruleum, a highly unstable substance. Midgardsormr wrought Agrius to ground, and the buckling of the ship caused the ignition of the ceruleum in the fuel tanks. This set off the enormous explosion, killing Midgardsormr and causing enough damage to destroy the seal under Silvertear Falls.

It is the full nature of the seal that is unknown. Silvertear Falls is the center of the world's aetherial network, so we're told, so what was the point of the seal? To keep the aether there? To keep specific aether there? To surround Xandes' tomb with it? To seal the aether containing the primals' essence within it? Did the breaking of the seal simply imbalance the aether of the realm enough to begin a descent into the Umbal era and this is what allowed the primals to be summoned? Or were the primals in the seal in the first place? We know that the Allag could seal primals - even Ultima could trap them. But I find it interesting that Odin was sealed inside a crystal beneath a spring and all the other primals came out of a shattering seal inside a lake... coincidence?

A lot remains to be seen.

As far as the Primal vs. Elder Primal discussion goes, until we get more clues, I'm just leaving it at "they're from a different era." It's the only thing that we can confirm that Bahamut, Odin, and Belias have in common.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

But I find it interesting that Odin was sealed inside a crystal beneath a spring and all the other primals came out of a shattering seal inside a lake... coincidence?

---

Oh oh! Primals don't like WATER! Wait a tick......

http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/im...an_concept.jpg

That's where that son-of-a-gun has been, he keeps getting stuck in the water...... I kid, I kid.



But this is interesting, so far we have primal sealed in an lunar orbital satellite structure, sealed in/beneath Silvertear and then Odin sealed in the crystal of Urth's Gift (the gift is that Urth sealed him - he kept 90k'ing the Allagans while they were trying to xp).

Interesting side note: Since we brought up Silvertear Lake, I just uncovered a tid-bit from my 1.0 notes. In 1.0 we had to run a crystal out to Mor Dhona near the Silvertear shore. Interestingly, it would have put us just north, if not dead-on the Crystal Tower's entrance location (which may be sort of odd if they ever try to reconnect the Western Shroud).

The point of taking this crystal was to deaspect it. By simply burying it and waiting a bit, you could allow that area to purge that crystal of all its elemental properties. Something in Mor Dhona (at least in 1.0) could drain a crystal of its elemental aspect, and its possible that the primals were sealed there and drained of their powers because it served to weaken them, thus allowing the sealing - at least from the point of view of 1.0's storyline. It was not the primals themselves draining the power, they were gone from the area at the point 1572, they had been released in 1562 by the Agrius.

Food for thought, maybe well learn as we climb that tower...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RolandDebreton

The point of taking this crystal was to deaspect it. By simply burying it and waiting a bit, you could allow that area to purge that crystal of all its elemental properties.

---

Ready for some confusion? There are aspected crystals, overaspected crystals, deaspected crystals, and unaspected crystals. As far as I can tell...

Aspected crystals are the ones we see the most. They can be aspected towards fire, water, etc.

Overaspected crystals are the orange ones we see where the aetherial network is in chaos. It's the color that the aetherytes turned at the end of 1.0, the color of the Burning Wall. They even seem to be able to go chaotic and start sending damaging shocks everywhere.

Deaspected crystals one shined bright, but are now dark and lifeless. Their essence has been removed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronan Kognan

I've seen blindingly brilliant crystals, darkened dead crystals, and crystals with only a hint of their aspect still glimmering within. That is how I know these deadened crystals were not always so, but once shone as magnificently as any. But why has their light gone out? Why?

---

However, when we went to Mor Dhona, we buried lightning aspected crystals, and the nature of Mor Dhona unaspected them.

Why do I think they're different?

Quote:

---

Collecting unaspected crystals? How interesting... Though it just might work. While such crystals are practically useless to a crafter who seeks to harness the elemental aspect of the aether, many of the beast tribes consider unaspected crystals to be of a "purer" state, and therefore better suited to their rituals. Unfortunately, there is only one place you can obtain unaspected crystals, and that is in the heart of Mor Dhona. The land there has the mysterious quality of draining the element from anything with which it remains in contact for an extended period of time. If you were to bury a lightning crystal there, I don't suppose it would take long for it to transform into the item you need. Mor Dhona is an old, old place that is mentioned in the myths and legends of the beast tribes and the five races alike. While the stories vary, all contain references to a great force that slumbers there - though whether it be a force for good or evil depends on whom you ask. Could it be this force that draws the elemental aspect from crystals?

---

Why would the beast tribes want darkened, dead crystals to summon their gods? They wouldn't.

The massive confluence of aether in Mor Dhona, unaspected by whatever's up with the place, can even case these crystals to justgrow spontaneously, as well. They used to be everywhere - you can see them in the rich green Mor Dhona where Midgardsormr fell. You can see them in the dead wasteland of 1.0. You can see them there now in the areas that aren't overaspeted. Seek out a Miner levequest called "Crystal Mess" and you can mine an "overgrown" unaspected crystal for your very own.

What's the point? No idea.

All I know is that even SE can get them mixed up at times. In the hard mode of the White Raven battle, you had to start out by building a party set-up focused on surviving his opening Megaflare so that you could farm deaspected clusters from falling meteor debris. These could be crafted into lunar curtains, which you could then use on legitimate runs of the fight to give you a massive defensive boost during Megaflares, freeing your party set up and cooldowns to be focused on winning. The item description of Lunar Curtains say they're made from unaspected crystals.

Anyway, just saying, don't let your theory get away from you so soon. If it truly was the case that deaspected crystals were dark and lifeless, but unaspected ones were bright and neutral, you'd have quite a house of cards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I love fringe theory speculation, and I'ma let you finish, but Midgardsormr has been theorized to be a primal, and the devs said no. And then the Waning of the Sixth Sun bluray called him an elder primal by mistake, and the devs said hell no. Whatever he was, he wasn't that. (Hint: He was a dragon lord)

---

It was worth a shot. Haha

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WellGramarye

When Derplander falls after the distruction of the airship (Bismark was it?) a light is released and for a moment you can see the primals Ifrit, and Titan shoot out from the explosion, as well as TWELVE (ish) other beings. This is a really interesting concept and I want to ask has this ever really been discussed in the lore? What was the light that killed Midgarsomr? Why were the primals present then? Can Derplander use the echo to see why kids love cinnamon toast crunch?

---

That would have been the Ceruleum tanks rupturing and exploding. Much like our oil, it's unstable and prone to be flammable. Oil is referred to as the "blood of the land". Ceruleum, I believe, is concentrated and condensed Aether that can be used as a fuel source (oh hai Mako).

The bigger question for me is:
There is wreckage of the Agrius all over present day Mor Dhona but there was none 5 years ago. 1.0 Mor Dhona had no wreckage on the shore and the water level seemed, lower in 1.0 showing more of the Agrius. Why is there pieces all over the place now and not before?

P.S Kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch because they like to cut the roofs of their mouths.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marishi-Ten

There is wreckage of the Agrius all over present day Mor Dhona but there was none 5 years ago. 1.0 Mor Dhona had no wreckage on the shore and the water level seemed, lower in 1.0 showing more of the Agrius. Why is there pieces all over the place now and not before?

---

Now that you mention it, Mor Dhona really is becoming more and more of a wasteland and trash dump. I believe that the metal all over Mor Dhona, however, is Dalamud debris.

There is one possibility that many have not considered. Now this is going to be a spoiler for those who haven't finished Turn 5 of Coil yet.

We see Nael and Louisoix chatting it up in front of Bahamut's head. What if the weapon that Nael used back in 1.0 actually worked and created a "reverse tempering" process on Bahamut? Maybe Nael Van Darnus went to face Louisoix as Bahamut, Louisoix told him that they want the same thing: the revival of the Allagan Empire. That would have given Nael cause to allow Loisoix to quarter Bahamut and return his consciousness back into his own body. That way, they can awaken Bahamut and interrogate him for what knowledge he has of the Allag.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Now that you mention it, Mor Dhona really is becoming more and more of a wasteland and trash dump. I believe that the metal all over Mor Dhona, however, is Dalamud debris.

---

One of the quests out of Revenant's Toll has you collecting cermet from the wreckage for that Roegadyn female, so at least some of the stuff spread across Mor Dhona is from airships.

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Heart_of_Cermet

http://xivdb.com/?quest/66536/Heart-of-Cermet

As for why we can see it now, but couldn't in 1.0 - I'm willing to just chalk that up to 1.0's lack of everything. Either that or it was buried before.