Plan to remove benefit for failing leves?

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Originally Posted by Jaide

How would you be further punished if the leve rewards were balanced, removing the incentive to fail them on purpose? In fact if they removed the incentive then you would end up much more gil, faction points, and marks. Clearly the SP reward is much more valuable than whatever else you get from completing the leves or you wouldn't see just about everyone doing it. Again, a system that rewards people who TRY to fail is broken and needs to be fixed.

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lol Jaide, they just don't want to give up the "easy mode" instead of doing it the right way and do what leves were ment to do in the first place "Complete your mission". Failing your mission yet still get rewarded by substantial sp? What kind of Level design is this? I agree don't blame the players blame to poor design.

However, even with the poor design people still abuse it to the 5th degree, and what I like to know is and my question to all of you:

Do you find Failing leves enjoyable?

and

When you hit R50 do you feel accomplished when you reach that rank?

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Hmmm, I wonder when they plan to implement that?

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The dev post doesn't give a specific time frame, it just says that it is the current course of action. The post does not also say whether or not there are additional changes in store to fix leve balance.

Cut the SP award back per mob and give a bonus SP award at the end (both totaling more than the total SP you gain currently)

That would fix it nicely IMO.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Cut the SP award back per mob and give a bonus SP award at the end (both totaling more than the total SP you gain currently)

That would fix it nicely IMO.

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That's a nice idea Actually...

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Originally Posted by AngryNixon

if the completion bonus in SP overcomes that problem solved.

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this would only be true if the completion bonus is several thousand SP.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Cut the SP award back per mob and give a bonus SP award at the end (both totaling more than the total SP you gain currently)

That would fix it nicely IMO.

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I would agree with that too.

As for the comment above on linking - really I think all that does is save time. If leves were balanced for SP rewards and everyone had different leves, I think in the end you would end up with the same if not more. If I understand it correctly, linking is just a convenience factor. The real problem is that the SP rewards during the course of some leves are much higher than others. This quoted solution would eliminate the need for balancing while still solving the problem of failing offering bigger rewards over time than success. Maybe this is what they are planning, but from that translated post it's hard to tell for sure.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

this would only be true if the completion bonus is several thousand SP.

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Yup. I put that line in there the same way insurance companies use fine print to catch every crazy possibility, like if you're house gets sacked by invading Mongols it isn't covered by your policy. I know it's unrealistic.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

However, even with the poor design people still abuse it to the 5th degree, and what I like to know is and my question to all of you:

Do you find Failing leves enjoyable?

and

When you hit R50 do you feel accomplished when you reach that rank?

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I have two answers for you:

Yes and yes.

I love the complaints from people who object to ranking up in this way on some "ethical" grounds and get all upset when either a) they aren't ranking up as fast as others or b) other people don't want to party with them because they don't have the most beneficial means to rank up.

There are plenty of systems in MMOs where failing an objective can be planned for various benefits. I ask FFXI vets how many times they went into some of the endgame events with the pure objective of farming gear and other item drops, rather than actually completing the objective of the zone. "But that's different! They're not getting ranks!" It's not as different as you might think, actually. If you have a small-ish FFXI Dynamis shell, for example, good luck getting the most gear drops in Xarcabard if you actually intend to kill DL.

Aren't you "supposed" to finish out that quest? Sure, especially if you conceive of it as a ridiculously long 3-hour leve, which isn't a huge stretch. But people don't always finish the main objective. Why? Because it takes away from the good stuff they can get and the good feeling of finishing it simply isn't worth the trade off when people want tangible rewards. Is that exploiting? No. Is it a poor game design? Not even that. It's allowing players in an MMO to have a bit of flexibility in the way they play the game and design their own objectives to an extent along the way.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Do you find Failing leves enjoyable?

and

When you hit R50 do you feel accomplished when you reach that rank?

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Let me answer these because as anyone on Fabul will agree, my LS does this more than any other.

What I find enjoyable is gaining ranks as efficiently as possible with friends. If that's by completing leves, failing them, or just grinding doesn't matter to me at all. If they balance leves by either making them impossible to fail and keep, or they change the bonus structure then we'll find another way.

Do I feel accomplished when I get another class to 50? Yes, that's a mind numbing number of times to repeat the same leve. So yes I do feel a sense of accomplishment when I move on to the next class.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

...What I find enjoyable is gaining ranks as efficiently as possible with friends...

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You guys are efficiency nerds too I see. :)

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Originally Posted by Starlord

...When you hit R50 do you feel accomplished when you reach that rank?

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I don't feel accomplished when I hit cap in any MMO. Getting from 1 to cap is solely a function of time. Some games it's more, some games it's less. I feel satisfied that it's over with, but "accomplished" is definitely not the word I'd use.

Using Molly Millions' logic though I suppose I could say there is a minor sense of accomplishment in how efficiently I get from 1 to cap.