Patch 2.2, Accessibility, Difficulty Levels, and Throwing Away Content

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Originally Posted by NefGP

The OP is exactly right. What kept XI alive and interesting for so many years (granted they kinda held onto it all a bit too long and then changed everything in 1 update so it was a massive shock all at once, as opposed to a gradual thing) was the horizontal progression.

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Nope. What kept FFXI alive was the fans of the game. Horizontal progression was just what FFXI fans liked.

It remains to be seen how long this model will keep FFXIV alive, but I have serious doubts that FFXI's model would do much better in this day and age.

letting more people go through content sure is throwing it away. yup.

why don't you go play.... ffxi. it's still going you know.

Every time I read one of these threads about people crying about their sense of accomplishment in a video game, it always comes off sounding to me like someone who doesn't get things accomplished in real life thus they regress to living by their virtual accomplishments.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

1) Patch 2.2 adds the "medium difficulty" to end-game content that should have been there from day one for players who just want to see the story, but at the same time takes the higher difficulty of that content away from the players that wanted a grinding-their-teeth challenge and some kind of trophy for doing it to show off to their friends. So they are actually taking away accessibility to the content.

Think of other games with difficulty levels. You may not ever play on super-chillidog-my-innards-are-dying extreme mode, but you could still try it if you wanted to. That is what access is. This is a game where you payed for the higher difficulty on those bosses, but now they are going to remove the higher difficulty at the same time they activate medium difficulty on the same boss. That sort of flies in the face of what "accessible" is supposed to mean.

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It's just a nerf and one we don't know the extent of yet, it could be implemented in a very unoffensive way. Having an "easy difficulty" for the sole end game encounter kills applicant pools for raiding. It happened in WoW and it'd happen here. You're actually suggesting something a lot worse than a nerf here, having multiple difficulties for raids just makes raiding a giant pain in the rear, you have too many desires and priorities, you have a lot less people because there are even MORE people who don't want to join guilds. It's altogether a bad time.

Further where are you getting this "We deserve to see Coil too" thing from? It's getting a nerf since it's going into DF, it might be over nerfing it might not. Though it's not an issue of letting people see coil. If that was the point they'd have done it 6 months ago. Don't act like the random arguments thrown around on this forum are the actual reasons things are being done or not done, because they most certainly are not.

The main goal of lowering the difficulty is probably so people actually keep running it. Like you write below this is just the nature of how content in these games works. So why act surprised? Why suggest these Gold Ruberg Device style solutions to problems only someone who is completely living in the past would have? You aren't going to please those players ever.

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2) No special rewards/trophies for beating the harder difficulty level that isn't the same thing rewarded at the lower difficulty level. It doesn't even have to be stronger gear, it could just be a different coloration of the same gear, a specific achievement stating you beat it on hard mode (which is sort of implemented since you can at least see the date on the achievement, but that really isn't what I'm referring to), and/or some kind of unique pet/mount/furniture. The players who took on the harder challenge should be rewarded for that because that is part of the reward for doing harder challenges: The trophies and recognition that comes with it.

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Uhg this recognition angle. This is content that a lot of people are going to dust themselves off and beat just because they heard it's being nerfed. I don't necessarily disagree with you here but still this is just stuff that is not coming back to these games anytime soon. The only real problem here is fooling yourself into thinking it's 99'

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3) All of the content we see now will eventually get thrown into the dustbin of old content caused by ever increasing item levels. In the end, it wouldn't even matter if they preserved the old content because they are constantly pushing higher stats, which don't equate to higher difficulty. Instead, they just create higher bars of entry and completely trash the original challenge of the older content. Simply put, they are forced to throw out the old content with this model because they would have to keep rebalancing the old stuff against the higher stats to keep it valid. So again, the challenge associated with the older content that YOU PAYED FOR will be ruined by their model of progression.

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Let me get this right. Content that the hypothetical raiders have run to their hearts content is being "thrown away" because it's in duty finder, and they're being given new content. Why is this such an issue? This has happened in a lot of games for a long time. Being surprised by this again is very surprising. What games have you been playing? Have you even been paying attention?

I mean it looks the same to the players in the end. I can apply the same argument to all content. If I out level say the 10 to 20 zone, am I really going to go back to that content (for arguments sake assume this is some hypothetical game where I'm only leveling one class) probably not, I'm essentially throwing it away. So if old content is retired and new content replaces it how is it any different than ANY progression ever was in these games. Even in EQ1 eventually you'd stop killing Fire Beetles, from your perspective they might have been removed from the game.

I think the funniest thing here is if Turns 1 through 5 were REALLY retired, like now no longer accessible at all. We'd see the same players who are so upset now defending that choice.

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Originally Posted by Despite

The problem is that almost every new AAA MMO is designed to specifically cater to the ultra casual, I want my epics without any effort crowd that apparently makes up the majority of MMO players these day.. ugh.
Anyway, now that every new AAA MMO is designed like that, anyone who wants a real epic, AAA MMO with difficulty and time requirements is just shit out of luck.

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Again you're using these words and I don't think you know what they mean. The ultra casual is being catered to by Candy Crush and Angry Birds, not by the MMO market. Sure trends have changed, but shrugging and going "welp you don't lose 10% EXP on death anymore, GUESS HARDCORE DOESN'T SELL ANYMORE *PAYS FOR GAME ANYWAY*" just rings so false. The only thing systems like that were hard on was your patience. I think eventually we are going to see a game more a long those 'hardcore' lines, but it probably will just produce a lot of risk averse play, because people naturally seek the path of least resistance. It's one type of difficulty being exchanged for another, older games had less GCD locked rotations and avoiding red circles and more grinding and camping. You'll probably get the game you want, but I sure wouldn't want to sell to a bunch of people who scream bloody murder about changes they should have seen coming, being such old hands at MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Worm

Again you're using these words and I don't think you know what they mean. The ultra casual is being catered to by Candy Crush and Angry Birds, not by the MMO market. Sure trends have changed.. /snip

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Maybe ultra casual is the wrong phrase, but point stands that MMOs are designed around people who spend 1/10th the time as what used to be needed.. and what I see should be needed.
Longer leveling, more investment in your character, it's reputation and personal advancement, and your community. These are things that to me make for a much more rewarding MMPRPG gaming experience. It used to be quite a bit more like this..
Also let's be honest here, you know they're trying to get the angrybirds players too.

Candy crush is actually harder than this game.

No seriously.

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Originally Posted by Zaels

Candy crush is actually harder than this game.

No seriously.

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I don't think luck plays that kind of role in combat at all if you don't count as drops as successful way to play the game.

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Originally Posted by Despite

The problem is that almost every new AAA MMO is designed to specifically cater to the ultra casual, I want my epics without any effort crowd that apparently makes up the majority of MMO players these day.. ugh.
Anyway, now that every new AAA MMO is designed like that, anyone who wants a real epic, AAA MMO with difficulty and time requirements is just shit out of luck.

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Play a game called Regnum, it will take you like 5 months just to get your magna [relic equivelent] gear^^ And the drop rates are so BS that you will most likey never ever get your hands on something called alasthor rings XD.
Honestly though, grinding and grinding and grinding, is such a chore and I can't believe games still do it. Everything should be skill based not time based, as it is here. But I love the world of FF, so I just enjoy it. I would prefer to have super difficult, short bosses that give best end game gear, than long, endless, repeating mechanical fights or farming a dungeon. I mean if i beat a dungeon, I wish I never had to go back, it should be one time, but the design is opposite here. But all in all I love this game simply for its style. And hoping for a waaaay more pvp oriented enhancment to the game, that would be so epic.

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Originally Posted by Zaels

Candy crush is actually harder than this game.

No seriously.

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needs moar touhou.

Nevermind other MMOs, what about when some of the other huge multiplayer hits of the year come along?

Diablo 3: Reaper of Souls is looking fantastic, and is F2P. And don't forget about Destiny, which is essentially an MMO experience but in the form of an FPS. Plus if I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure EA hinted at a Mass Effect MMO being in the works (nothing confirmed yet but you know they've got to be working on one).

ARR has its work cut out for it. Sony's even got a new Everquest coming up, and Elder Scrolls is in closed beta atm.