Summon size have you down? why not have it your way?

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Originally Posted by Nofacekiller

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They went this way once and made SMN one of the worst classes in the game. Back before the level cap, SMN was almost never used for damage dealing due to their sloppy, restricted design. Their support abilities were subpar as well with a couple exceptions such as Hastega, Spring Water etc.

Don't fix something that isn't broken. SMN this time is actually useful and the Egi are perfectly fine. Although, Ifrit could honestly use some adjustments to make him more viable.

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Originally Posted by Nofacekiller

Then change the lore to make it so you are summoning a little more than 5% of the summons power or whatever excuse you want to make up.

Egis suck and are not consistent with ANY other FF title that has summons in it. I wouldn't be appealing to tradition if their current system was actually an improvement.

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Whether this is a copy paste job from WoW or not, I enjoy the class. No, it isn't the traditional summoner, and is more of a WoW-esque pet class. Summoner in FFXI was a more traditional summoner, and it sucked. That isn't to say any implementation that is more traditional would suck, but here is a major reality check:

SE is NEVER going to completely re-design the class after launch.

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Originally Posted by Ardan

They went this way once and made SMN one of the worst classes in the game. Back before the level cap, SMN was almost never used for damage dealing due to their sloppy, restricted design. Their support abilities were subpar as well with a couple exceptions such as Hastega, Spring Water etc.

Don't fix something that isn't broken. SMN this time is actually useful and the Egi are perfectly fine. Although, Ifrit could honestly use some adjustments to make him more viable.

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Wait, I never said copy FFXI exactly how it was. You can make SMN more about the pet and it doesn't necessarily mean that they will be any less powerful. FFXI had a great concept but the implementation was extremely poor.

SE took the easy way out and copied WoW instead of trying to make the traditional SMN class viable.

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Originally Posted by Nofacekiller

more about the pet and it doesn't necessarily mean that they will be any less powerful.

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Every other MMO ever disagrees

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Originally Posted by Kevee

Every other MMO ever disagrees

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Masterminds from City of Villians would like to have a word with you. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Nofacekiller

SE took the easy way out and copied WoW instead of trying to make the traditional SMN class viable.

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You or anyone else can say this a WoW copied class as much as you want. It doesn't change the fact that it works and it works well. If they went the traditional SMN design approach they would suffer the same problems the traditional SMN class had in the past: dead pet means no damage. Is it really so bad that SMN this time around is so different?

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Originally Posted by Hoshikogi

If you completed the summoner quest lines, you will realize that the summons are not their intended sizes. If the BLM's tier III spells were the size of a Lala's head or Holy the size of Garuda Egi, both players of these jobs would complain as they did back in 1.0.

Since I'm requesting that the player have the choice on how summons are viewed on their screen (or viewed at all from other players), why should you be so negatively concerned at all with my post? If SE considers my request, you will have the option to maintain the summon's compact form.

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on the other hand, the egi in the summoner quests are "free", you've literally just used the primal's aether to call "an egi", you're likely limiting the egi's power when you summon it yourself to make it easier to control (eg, a candle is much easier to control than, say, a bonfire, and easier to snuff out if it gets out of control). it's not played up as much as the warlock pets in WoW (mainly since the lock pets have personalities, eg. imps are there because you have a contract, voidwalkers are there because you force them to be, felguards despise you for daring to summon them and only do what you say because you can kick their ass at any time), but egi do have SOME free will, they only do what you say because you beat them in combat and proved that if they rebel you'll just kill them. imagine if a summoner lost control of the quest titan-egi midway through a HM-Titan fight, there'd be landslides and razed earth everywhere... oh right EX-Titan :P

before you bring up tristan, remember that he has been a summoner much longer than you have been, and that he was making deals with the ascians for more power, and he was able to just consume belias-egi, so he was likely able to release an egi's full power whenever he wanted (that said, I'd love that ability to merge with your egi and get an additional ability at the cost of your pet)

it's possible that at some point down the line, maybe when the level cap is raised, we'll get a summoner quest where we prove that we're strong enough to command the full power of an egi, and then we'll get the larger summons

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Originally Posted by Ardan

You or anyone else can say this a WoW copied class as much as you want. It doesn't change the fact that it works and it works well. If they went the traditional SMN design approach they would suffer the same problems the traditional SMN class had in the past: dead pet means no damage. Is it really so bad that SMN this time around is so different?

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I'm really getting sick of people using past examples of bad implementation as a argument. I already admitted past iterations of SMN (namely FFXI) have been bad.

Why do people around here seem to think that adjustments can't be made?

You can add tools that help the SMN keep their pet alive if you want. You can do anything.

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Originally Posted by Nofacekiller

I'm really getting sick of people using past examples of bad implementation as a argument. I already admitted past iterations of SMN (namely FFXI) have been bad.

Why do people around here seem to think that adjustments can't be made?

You can add tools that help the SMN keep their pet alive if you want. You can do anything.

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You are advocating for a complete re-design of the class after launch. That simply won't happen for a wide range of reasons, mainly that people have been playing the existing class and have existing gear tuned to the existing class. You cannot wipe out every summoner's progress in order to replace the class with something else. Not to mention the time and resources necessary for that kind of re-design would destroy the 'new minor version every 3 months' plan they are trying to hold to.

It is simply not feasible.

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Originally Posted by Pentacus

before you bring up tristan, remember that he has been a summoner much longer than you have been, and that he was making deals with the ascians for more power, and he was able to just consume belias-egi, so he was likely able to release an egi's full power whenever he wanted (that said, I'd love that ability to merge with your egi and get an additional ability at the cost of your pet)

it's possible that at some point down the line, maybe when the level cap is raised, we'll get a summoner quest where we prove that we're strong enough to command the full power of an egi, and then we'll get the larger summons

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To begin, SE developers already said they do not intend to change the Egi's size or appearance as we progress in level or in content (something that's not necessarily set in stone). Second, the untamed-Egi we summon initially and defeat is much too large for a player's pet (with this I agree entirely); however, Tristan's Egi is the size I believe most Final Fantasy fans are desiring. SE summoner developers made the mistake of maintaining their intended Egi size For Tristan's Egi during the cut scenes and during the quest fights, which does tend to have a negative impact on the perception of the job as a whole.