So, what do PALADINS get in 2.1?

I wish i could downvote

-fuzz

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Originally Posted by Sin_Nombre

So, what do PALADINS get in 2.1?

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Vanilla ice cream. THE BEST FLAVOR.

Do not argue with me.

PLD NEED 1 THING ONLY AS I SEE... NOW

( se ) MAKE CURE MORE USEFULLY

THAT'S IT ^^
NOW WE CAN SEE PARTY FROM 8 THAT'S HAVE WAR AND PLD

NOT 2 PLD ^^

Paladins need a buff which makes them less of a crybaby with a potency of 9000 :P

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Originally Posted by Kaonis

The only thing I'd like to see if PLD being more useful as an OT as I've never felt so useless then when I OT a fight that doesn't require me to tank something that hits hard at some point. Also I think just giving PLD more to do, it's the most boring tank I've played to date, just spam 1 combo, hit 1 button for aoe threat, and occasionally pop a cool down. I'd really like for them to make using the conjurer spells worthwhile to have, especially cure. It's saddening looking at that huge MP pool and knowing it's only ever going to get used to spam flash.

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Why? Paladin off-tank in DPS spec gear does a ridiculous amount of damage and you have Shield Oath to fall back on if you have adds to tank (though, not really even necessary then)

It was pretty obvious that as soon as warriors were remotely buffed that a lot of paladins would complain. I think buffs are viewed like cookies, and should be shared equally. Personally I don't think we need any -buffs- as such, we're clearly in a good spot. If anything, being so clearly the flavor-of-the-month tank has felt a bit annoying the past few months. I'll be much happier tanking on my paladin in 2.1 I think when there's a mix of tanks out there.

The only thing that paladins "need" are a few quality of life improvements that don't necessarily increase their overall tanking ability but just smooth out a few cracks. Shield Swipe being more useful (give it an enmity boost perhaps so you can slip it into your tank rotation without a threat loss), Awareness not being bugged and stopping heals critting on you.

Also, shifting the enmity values on Shield Oath and Sword Oath so Sword Oath actually does -less- than Shield Oath and a sword oath paladin can dps with halone combos without massively overtaking the tank's threat. They're buffing defiance threat, so if they keep Sword Oath how it is and buff Shield Oath past it it should be good. Oh, and some kind of passive boost that makes cure do more than 200 health per cast. You can't use it in combat when tanking much anyway due to interrupts, but as of now it's pretty much a wasted crossclass slot.

Those are the only things that paladin actually needs in my opinion. In terms of actual mitigation, damage done and general tank-stats, everything is working just fine.

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Originally Posted by Sin_Nombre

Those warrior changes are pretty sick if they go through. What about Paladins? What are we going to get? If we're unchanged, I'm easily going back to my warrior... the only real thing I'll lose is my silence and stun spam - but a monk or bard can silence for me and I can't spam stun anyway since mobs resist so much; a 20 second cd should be fine.

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Originally Posted by Gardes

Vanilla ice cream. THE BEST FLAVOR.

Do not argue with me.

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You guys are going to get a box of kleenex to dry your tears. /troll-off

/ontopic: Don't worry, PLD will still have their room in party/event/whatever is worth. People doesn't realise that there is nothing to cry about. No one's effort is going to be wasted, but somes ppl effort are going to be rewarded.

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Originally Posted by Krystalynn

Toss some of that damage our way. Shield's really damn heavy when you're sitting 'offtanking' in a role you're used to swinging a bloody axe at. You want the main tank role, and leave us with diddly. Why the hell would anyone want a Paladin in the group sitting on Titan's ass, or any other boss when the dps race begins? Need two tanks for the encounter? Great? DPS phase?

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You're better off forming a group without dual tanks. Besides, the sword oath paladin and non-defiance stance warrior have similar dps. Take a gander at Kitru (among others) that have done the math on it.

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Someone explain to me why a Warrior isn't sitting in my spot. Seriously. Even I feel fucking ASHAMED when I'm in a dps slot I know can be filled by someone truly qualified. When I know a Warrior could do the role SO much better. But you're tanking the boss, and I'm wailing away on a mob with half my abilities uselessly sitting and waiting on a shield that never comes into effect because I have one role, and you have two and you leave Paladins with none.

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Again....there's not much difference in the dps capabilities of evenly geared paladins and warriors. The only abilities you are really "wasting" are the defensive ones (unless you feel the need to use one for a tumult, weight, bomb as you're referencing Titan) and shield swipe. Otherwise you are spamming halone combo, FoF on cooldown, and CoS/SW and cooldown just like you would be tanking.

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The only reason one would take a Paladin in that role is charity and pity, and just to 'be nice'~ which should be depressing. I'm sorry, but it really irks me that I know I'm going into a raid, and even if nobody says a word, I am mechanically hurting their chances to win if I'm not taking hits. No Paladin who gives a shit should be comfortable with this. That's not why we became tanks. It goes against everything in our nature to want our very presence to hurt our teammates.

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Many warriors also felt they were being taken as "charity" or out of "pity" because a second paladin (especially for coil) couldn't be found. Can warriors clear titan, coil, etc right now? Sure...but only by stressing healers more than having a paladin/paladin group. There are some videos of a solo paladin tanking Coil. Currently that is not possible with warriors. I doubt it is possible even after the 2.1. buffs.

I would tell you I'm sorry you feel your paladin will be second rate in 2.1, but I'm not (mostly because you come across as someone that could care less that warriors are in the very spot you are afraid of landing in). Paladins will still have the edge over warrior tanks in survivablity. The gap, howerver, will hopefully shrink enough that warriors will no longer be getting a "charity" or "pity" spot.

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Originally Posted by Churchill

Why? Paladin off-tank in DPS spec gear does a ridiculous amount of damage and you have Shield Oath to fall back on if you have adds to tank (though, not really even necessary then)

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The problem with PLD off tanking is the only 'dps combo' we have is Fast Blade > Riot Blade because if we use our main combo, in Sword Oath, we'll be main tanking in a matter of moments. If they found a way to make the excess MP worthwhile (maybe a Enspell that drains mp or decent healing/Holy damage) then we'll still offer 'nothing to do' as an off tank as opposed to WAR.

*edit* it's also impossible to jump into dps spec gear mid fight and you never know what'll happen to the MT, so jumping into dps gear would seem moot imho.

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Originally Posted by Fyreus

*edit* it's also impossible to jump into dps spec gear mid fight and you never know what'll happen to the MT, so jumping into dps gear would seem moot imho.

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lol that would be awesome if we can have a on-the-fly macro that swaps out all our gear for DPS when we switch to sword oath, and back to tank gear when switching to shield oath.

Anywho, yeah i agree with OT using only FB>RB combo on sword oath. In GarudaHM, I typically have to wait to start attacking or throttle my dps down in order to use our main tank combo. Iv pulled Garuda off a Shield Oath MT many times before, it only takes small stat differences in gear to determine who will pull more aggro. Same goes with TitanHM and its a pain as I see my aggro meter jump when i shouldn't be building that much aggro in the first place.