People need the party grind, please bring it back and get rid of fates.

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Originally Posted by nasomi

Fates are a cheap alternative to the party grind. Fast xp and levels. Problem is, people don't learn how to play in a party environment. You see threads with "omg this 42 tank in copperbell didn't know anything, how do you get that far and not know how to play your job?"

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Yes when the most asked for thing when it comes to leveling is an alternative to fate and the most suggested thing is repeatable quests or the quests re-opening up on every single job the best solution is more forced grouping in the vein of the old FF11 grind. No, you introduce forced partying to kill single mobs in a group of six and the player base will bleed out. Most won't complain. They'll simply leave.

You want to make grouping a bigger incentive and have people learn to play their classes? INCREASE DUNGEON EXP and give more reasons to re-run older dungeons/content.

Since when has grinding mobs taught anyone how to play their class well?

It can teach basic mechanics, yes, but so does soloing.

What you really want is for dungeons to give equivalent exp to fates. That way more people will play healers and tanks to get the fast queues, and therefore, they would get more experience for those roles in a practical setting.

Grinding mobs is not going to teach anyone how to play their class in a setting where they have to worry about preforming well AND dealing with boss mechanics.

I would like to see the two (and dungeons) brought more in line with one another because right now by far the fastest and at the same time easiest (and most mindnumbing) way to level is to FATE zerg. It's awful.

My proposed solution would be to increase rewards to clearing dungeons, and up universal monster kill experience a small amount. At the same time drop the FATE spawn time rate by maybe half to 2/3rds, but keep the rewards the same. This will encourage more people to take part in the other activities, but make waiting around for FATE's to spawn and zerging them much less appealing. However, FATE's will still be a boon for parties working together as they pop.

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Originally Posted by Haruka-Akemi

EDIT: someone said that the better way to learn the skills is repeatedly (typo?) use the skill?
But what about some player that even understand their own abilitys
I had a tank in the wanderers palace and amdapor keep who didnt know about flash or shield lob
Only did fast blade- savage blade- rage o halone ober and over and over

I bet that guy didnt even read the description of the skill
But in goin to far

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That exactly why repeatedly exercising a skill is important to learning. The more often you use a skill, the more nuance you will come to understand. Dungeons offer just as many opportunities as EXP parties for learning how a given ability works, if not more.

In the example you used, the PLD did not understand Flash or Shield Lob. This is because either he did not understand the text, or did not read it, and no one corrected him. In an EXP party, I doubt you are proposing that this would magically make him understand his abilities. Rather, I suspect you mean to say that his party members would inform him that Flash gives good AoE hate, and that Shied Lob is a good pulling skill.

This is just as likely to happen in a dungeon as it is in party. More so, I would expect, because parties in dungeons have a vested interest in going as fast as possible (not something I personally enjoy, but the desire exists). This pressures players to play to their utmost, resulting in some nasty behavior patterns at times but that is a subject for another thread. Gruffness aside, those players are going to inform the PLD in question that he is doing something wrong. He can then take that opportunity to learn something, or not.

You don't learn calculus quickly by practicing algebra. You don't learn to be a better dungeon crawler quickly by exping on monsters outside of dungeons. What the OP and those who agree with him are asking for is an experience, not because it's a better way of doing things, but because it was one that they prefer.

I actually quite like EXP parties, and I miss them myself, but I also strongly believe in calling a spade a spade. EXP parties will not make you a better dungeon crawler faster than actually dungeon crawling.

The only reason fates are over crowded right now is because the game is still new and people are leveling. Once more and more people level up the fates will be less crowded. Hell i went to the level 1-12 fate zones and was practically soloing them on my GLD.

It seems, at least on my server, that everyone fates well beyond the fate level, into their 40's, and syncing down just outside aleport. They level up, but never move, and simply start syncing. Level sync can be good, but for this, when I go to upper level fates, they're empty, where-as they have a hundred people running around outside aleport and grinding those forever.

I can see level sync being benefitial, but you do have hte ability to level every job on one character, why not switch to a different job. They introduced it in xi because most people had LOTS of jobs leveled well beyond the lower levels, and it was the only way to go back.

This isn't FFXI. Completely different gameplay mechanics.

Grinding mobs in old fashioned EXP PTs would not teach people how to play their jobs any more than FATE grinding does.

Just want to say FFXI classes does not involve anything more than auto attack and spam same skill chain for dps so don't give me crap that they learn how to play their classes. Matter of fact most smart players level thru fates and don't tell me they can't play their classes. I could play any classes with only few hour of practice to understand the skills mechanic. Fate got nothing to do with dumb people who can't read skills tooltip.

Weird... Aleport is definitely a popular spot on my server, but most people tend to go to South Blackshroud or Highbridge in Thanalan from 20-30, then Costa Del Sol till 35-40, then Coethras till 40-45, with Northern Thanalan being 40-50.

Then the last part... my point is what if you don't have a lower job? I have 50 arcanist, 50 thaumaturge, 34 archer, 32 lancer, 26 marauder, 15 pugilist and 13 gladiator. I have only been playing since launch and I don't put in the hours that a lot of people do... 2 months into the game's life and it won't take me that long to get all up to 50 since I get a 50% exp bonus on all my classes. What do you expect people to do if they have all 50s? pay for another character slot and roll an alt? That's not realistic when the level sync mechanic is already in the game. I should be able to level sync with lower level friends and enjoy content with them.

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Originally Posted by Pathetic

Just want to say FFXI classes does not involve anything more than auto attack and spam same skill chain for dps so don't give me crap that they learn how to play their classes. Matter of fact most smart players level thru fates and don't tell me they can't play their classes. I could play any classes with only few hour of practice to understand the skills mechanic. Fate got nothing to do with dumb people who can't read skills tooltip.

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I agree with this. I played my first 50 through the story and quests. All that is left is dungeons or fates for the most part. I'll be damned if I am going to wait 30-45 minutes for ONE dungeon pop on a DPS class when in the same amount of time I could have already gotten a level. Plus it's not that hard to figure out most classes and CM/Prae aren't that punishing either so it's not like you can't learn your class role at 50. Just stupid people can't, but they are stupid regardless of how they got to 50.

Once you hit 50, you pretty much got two choices, learn how to play you class anyway, or do something else.. I fail to see the reason for all the nerdrage around this. OK so you wiped in a dungeon cause someone is still learning the ropes. Get over it, and more importantly, get over yourselves.