What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

Again, what basis are you using to state what "most FF players" want? You keep trying to argue that the majority of FF players hold your viewpoint, with nothing to back it up.

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Something something Elden Ring, something something.

I've yet to see any conclusive proof that "most FF players" gravitate towards the games largely for having a specific type of setting.

FF VII being one of the most popular in the series despite having a very modern setting stands as one of the biggest contradictions in that regard. It is the sum of the parts; the setting, the story, and its characters that makes certain titles loved, not any singular aspect.

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

Again, what basis are you using to state what "most FF players" want? You keep trying to argue that the majority of FF players hold your viewpoint, with nothing to back it up.

And even IF that were correct, creators shouldn't have to pander to the most common denominator. That is the easiest way to stifle creativity.

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This again? By all means try and take on the task of marketing Final Fantasy Australia or Final Fantasy Colonial-Era Americas to FF players and see what happens.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I've yet to see any conclusive proof that "most FF players" gravitate towards the games largely for having a specific type of setting.

FF VII being one of the most popular in the series despite having a very modern setting stands as one of the biggest contradictions in that regard. It is the sum of the parts; the setting, the story, and its characters that makes certain titles loved, not any singular aspect.

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Possibly because modern settings have more appeal than barren wastelands with less in them than Gyr Abania or cultures that they simply do not come to Final Fantasy to play through.

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

But being a hypocrite =/= being wrong. If a murderer tells you that murder is a crime, they are objectively correct, even if they're a hypocrite.

The rules of the FFXIV universe as of EW is that "paradise = bad, suffering = good", and Venat "had to" sunder the world in order to beat Meteion. She also knows, via the story's rules about time travel, that if she follows the exact time loop she was warned of, then the people of the future will become armed with the knowledge of what causes the Final Days. She is, again, correct that if she stays the course, that a person capable of defeating Meteion will appear, with her final test being to defeat Hyadaelyn herself.

Again, I don't like that the story bends over backwards to paint this as the objectively correct course to follow, but it does.

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The thing is though. she didn’t know if we were capable of it. Not only did she make us trial her, but she also had a backup plan for it in case we failed. She knew 100% it was a gamble, and she gambled the lives of billions all on one person. Even in the games logic though, the ancients did suffer. Venat herself says this. There wasn’t much showing that the ancients couldn’t have combatted Meteion outside of dynamis manipualtion problems, however even the scions and Wol aren’t just completely sundered, they’re 8/14 and 9/14. So clearly it isn’t that drastic of a change. My problem is that she thinks she’s correct when she isn’t. Had she told her people the truth and had hope in them, they perhaps could have come to a solution together. Found an ANSWER if you will. Also….what was stopping her from sundering a select few people or beings? There are just too many variables that paint her as being in the wrong, opposite of what the story depicts her as.

I know you’re just going based off of what the story itself says and not your own feelings, but that’s one of the big problems with EW, it contradicts itself so many times that at this point it’s hard to keep track of what’s what. It’s all just all over the place and we’re expected to just not question it when objectively, venat’s thinking and answers are flawed.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

This again? By all means try and take on the task of marketing Final Fantasy Australia or Final Fantasy Colonial-Era Americas to FF players and see what happens.

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"Oh no, I was criticized for making fallacious arguments assuming my tastes = everyone's tastes before, and now it's happening again! How could this be?"

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However, I can imagine what the community reaction may be if they did such a thing, with my previous thread outlining a Meracydia expansion revolving around a kingdom roughly analogous to Cornelia or Alexandria being criticized for not having enough "indigenous inspiration" if I remember correctly. There is a massive disconnect between those players and what most FF players seem to gravitate towards in the games they actually purchase.

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Ah. This explains a lot.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

This again? By all means try and take on the task of marketing Final Fantasy Australia or Final Fantasy Colonial-Era Americas to FF players and see what happens.

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"This again" should be my line, since you're the one that keeps trying to sneak your opinion back in.

And yeah, no problem. I don't believe most FF players are that shallow. If you are, that's on you.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

The thing is though. she didn’t know if we were capable of it. Not only did she make us trial her, but she also had a backup plan for it in case we failed. She knew 100% it was a gamble, and she gambled the lives of billions all on one person. Even in the games logic though, the ancients did suffer. Venat herself says this. There wasn’t much showing that the ancients couldn’t have combatted Meteion outside of dynamis manipualtion problems, however even the scions and Wol aren’t just completely sundered, they’re 8/14 and 9/14. So clearly it isn’t that drastic of a change. My problem is that she thinks she’s correct when she isn’t. Had she told her people the truth and had hope in them, they perhaps could have come to a solution together. Found an ANSWER if you will. Also….what was stopping her from sundering a select few people or beings? There are just too many variables that paint her as being in the wrong, opposite of what the story depicts her as.

I know you’re just going based off of what the story itself says and not your own feelings, but that’s one of the big problems with EW, it contradicts itself so many times that at this point it’s hard to keep track of what’s what. It’s all just all over the place and we’re expected to just not question it when objectively, venat’s thinking and answers are flawed.

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It was a gamble either way, though. I agree with you: the morally correct thing Venat should have done was trust her fellow Ancients to come up with a solution and tell them the truth. However, at the moment of the Sundering, the Ancients were talking about sacrificing to Zodiark the very creatures that make the future Venat knows will come about. (The games and the devs are inconsistent over whether these lives were the sapient races or merely the flora/fauna. But either way, sacrificing them cut off the future she knows forever.) I saw Venat as having to make a choice right then and there, and she did. Frankly, I think she should have done a hell of a lot more to keep it from coming to that point, but again...that would have been no less a gamble.

While it's true that Hydaelyn didn't know for sure that the WOL would be able to defeat Meteion, they were still her best chance. Again, I have a LOT to say about the things she did and didn't do before it came to that (why didn't she tell the Loporitz to make their own "teeny tiny toy boat" to save the people of the Source? Because the story would have less dire stakes of course.)

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

"This again" should be my line, since you're the one that keeps trying to sneak your opinion back in.

And yeah, no problem. I don't believe most FF players are that shallow. If you are, that's on you.

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And I do not believe most Final Fantasy players will want to buy an expansion set in or that draws heavily from Australia, Africa, or the New World. You will have better luck convincing me to play warlock-era Summoner than you will convincing me to play through that.

Granted, I'll happily cede the territory to your group if you want to play through whatever that expansion will turn out to be with the scions undergoing yet another prolonged period of absent character growth and antagonists with ludicrous motivations and dynamis style plot elements, so long as FFXVI manages to come out before then you'll not hear anything from me till 8.0.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

And I do not believe most Final Fantasy players will want to buy an expansion set in or that draws heavily from Australia, Africa, or the New World. You will have better luck convincing me to play warlock-era Summoner than you will convincing me to play through that.

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I would think the reception your concept for your ideal 7.0 got would have been clear enough proof that FFXIV players aren't any more interested in a "pure European fantasy", but that hasn't stopped you from continually claiming the contrary in this thread.

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Originally Posted by tokinokanatae

I would think the reception your concept for your ideal 7.0 got would have been clear enough proof that FFXIV players aren't any more interested in a "pure European fantasy", but that hasn't stopped you from continually claiming the contrary in this thread.

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And I look forward to what is your perceived reception from FF players of Final Fantasy: Australian Safari while I am busy going off on a Dragon-Age style quest with Clive and his companions in FFXVI.

Right now the interesting elements that got me into this game have all but exited stage left. Final Fantasy XIV is a position where they need to work to retain me as a player for the future, rather than hoping I'll stick around like I did when I was barely interested in Ala Mhigo but decided to buy Stormblood anyway because Heavensward was fun.

Weak cast? Locations that I have no interest in? What's supposed to keep me around? What's supposed to entice other players besides prettyboy creation and dressup?

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Weak cast? Locations that I have no interest in? What's supposed to keep me around? What's supposed to entice other players besides prettyboy creation and dressup?

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Nothing, I guess. Have fun in Dragon Age and FFXVI!