What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

I think the sentiments about Venat are relatively common but a lot of people don't feel as though it's a make or break thing, myself included. It's not impossible to like her a lot and think her actions were genocidal; just look at how much people liked Emet even before EW (although I personally like a lot of characters much more than her).

Even to those people, I imagine the tonal clash is enough to warrant further clarification.

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The difference between the two is Emet did everything he did for his people. Venat did the opposite, she did what she did because she lost hope in her people. Honestly i think a lot of the popularity surrounding her just revolves around her being a “waifu.” It would follow the trend for what Yshtola’s popularity used to be.

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Originally Posted by Brinne

Nah, Venat is still a very, very popular character in Japan, too. Again, there were two 2ch-based polls of "favorite Endwalker NPC" that were commonly cited before Famitsu's own poll--and Venat scored #3, and then #2, below Emet. Even in Famitsu, Endwalker was voted in as "favorite expansion." There are people who have criticisms and feel very strongly about them, same as here, of course. But it's probably best to not fall into the trap of "I bet those other people whose feedback I don't have direct access to hate it, though." Not that I don't understand, and not that Yoshi's attitude in the Q&A regarding her wasn't pretty curious.

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All I said was "I think that there must be more debate happening in Japan" because if Yoshi-P is only going by Reddit, Twitter, and streamers (their most often cited sources of feedback) there's no reason to believe everyone doesn't adore Venat which, yes, would make his response to the sundering question quite odd. Why would he need to defend a widely beloved character?

I've said before, Venat was likeable until the end of Elpis and I know in Japan she's voiced by a popular actress as well. The phrasing of that particular question in the LL was the sundering being necessary. It's possible they like Venat, but didn't like her actions. Most Emet fans don't like the rejoinings, but they like him.

As far as EW goes, even if I didn't hate Venat it still wouldn't rank above HW or ShB for me. I liked Garlemald and I liked Elpis, but the rest of it was kind of meh. Personally, I think Elpis carried EW hard, which is evidenced in the character polls. Were it not for the sour taste it left in my mouth, I might rank it higher just because questing with my two favorite characters in "the world unsundered" including a trust was pretty damn awesome.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

The difference between the two is Emet did everything he did for his people. Venat did the opposite, she did what she did because she lost hope in her people. Honestly i think a lot of the popularity surrounding her just revolves around her being a “waifu.” It would follow the trend for what Yshtola’s popularity used to be.

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Venat also did it all for a bunch of creatures and/or people we never saw, met, or get any details on. They're really not that different. The only difference is that the writers knew what they were going for with Emet and got mostly what I assume to be the intended reaction, and we were actually shown why his people were so important to him. Meanwhile, Venat's believably in her motives and moral standing is a lot more questionable because we either lack details or have contradictory ones.

There's no need to be so dismissive of the reasons people like her.

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

Venat also did it all for a bunch of creatures and/or people we never saw, met, or get any details on. They're really not that different. The only difference is that the writers knew what they were going for with Emet and got mostly what I assume to be the intended reaction, and we were actually shown why his people were so important to him. Meanwhile, Venat's believably in her motives and moral standing is a lot more questionable because we either lack details or have contradictory ones.

There's no need to be so dismissive of the reasons people like her.

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I’m not really being dismissive, people are free to like her but to compare her to Emet is a pretty big disservice imo. She contradicted her own feelings and the things she preached, and lost hope in her own people and even didn’t entirely trust in her own plan. Meanwhile Emet toiled away for 12k+ years to restore his people, people he loved and were lost. Emet was trying to regain, Venat destroyed it all. I remember someone before saying that if Venat instead of being some waifu goddess was instead some ugly old man, people would think differently about her and i can’t help but think it’s true, especially with the way i’ve seen people talk about her on twitter and reddit(and even here to an extent.) It apparently wasn’t the intended reaction for Emet because even Yoshi P was confused that people believed him and what he told us in ShB.

So, expectations for the LL tomorrow?

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I think the error could be forgiven for your regular scholar, who wasn't present through all of what the WoL went through, but in their case specifically, it's a bit more difficult to justify the confusion.

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Oh, yeah, don't ask me to account for the WoL's reaction in that specific scene in Elpis. I got nothing. (I got nothing for a lot of instances of the WoL's reaction, but nevertheless.)

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Originally Posted by Lauront

So, expectations for the LL tomorrow?

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Yoshi-P will say something that doesn't come through in translation very well and will cause a flood of alarmed players posting on the forum.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

I've said before, Venat was likeable until the end of Elpis and I know in Japan she's voiced by a popular actress as well. The phrasing of that particular question in the LL was the sundering being necessary. It's possible they like Venat, but didn't like her actions. Most Emet fans don't like the rejoinings, but they like him.

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Yep, I think even the way the question was phrased granted that her intentions were seen as good by the person asking, so it is possible there is some sort of dissatisfaction even in those who like her with what she did. Even I will grant that she was a likeable character throughout Elpis; where she lost me was after Ktisis Hyperboreia.

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Originally Posted by Brinne

Oh, yeah, don't ask me to account for the WoL's reaction in that specific scene in Elpis. I got nothing. (I got nothing for a lot of instances of the WoL's reaction, but nevertheless.)

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Ah, being a SMN or SCH in Eden...

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Originally Posted by Lauront

So, expectations for the LL tomorrow?

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We’re gonna get some fluff about thanking all of the super nice npcs that helped us in EW and give them muffins and throw a super kawaii party for them. Then we’re gonna go to sharlayan and have a small tidbit quest where we get to watch Yshtola talk to some of the teachers there and just be absolutely smarter than any of them and have a funny haha moment where they get annoyed with her and she gets super smug. Then we’re gonna get some urgent news about some dragons or garleans and the dungeons will be an early visit to corvos or meracydia and the blasphemy problem will be completely solved with barely a mention. Oh and Graha at some point will start getting all sparkly eyed and worshipping us and Estinien and doing his uwu adorable ear wiggle when he gets excited.

I am slightly concerned about them saying they didn't want to disclose the name of the MSQ dungeon out of fears that it would "raise people's expectations too high".

It kind of sounds it's going be a significant location we're going to end up visiting for not-so significant reasons.