Would you like an in-game parser?

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

..D

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The methods you speak of gives more chance for wipe, why Would you risk it more? Ahh yes i Miss ffxi rdm and brd. True support class, i can see why you roll astro.

I was just about to go to bed when I realized something about this thread. As much as I dislike the idea of parsers and such, this thread has made me actually appreciate the diversity of groups and people I meet in dungeons and my role as a healer. One of the things I find fun about my job and even the game in general is not the repetitive nature of it, but actually having to adjust to the situation. In dungeons sometimes that means DPSing and healing, sometimes it means playing spam the cure button to keep the tank alive while trying to get a few holies in to stun the mobs for a bit. Sometimes it means getting to watch two monks or a monk and a blm utterly evaporate things.

Sometimes it leads to flawless victories or utter disasters, but once in a while you have those epic comebacks when some summoner raises the healer then dies, but the healer gets off the LB3 raises the raid and you have this huge clutch victory and those moments make it worth it to me. (I know, I know it doesn't happen that often, but when it does aren't they awesome?) So thank you all, pro-parsers and anti-parsers alike who helped me to realize that I like the diversity of people in the game and while some may frustrate me... I'm more or less OK with that and can deal with it.

I just felt I had to post that. I'm going to sleep now it's way past my bed time and it took me way too long to write this ><;

Do I want an in-game parser?

Fuck no.

"WHM, it says here on my little Parser-doodle that you did lower DPS than the rest of us so far this run."

"Well, yeah, because I was keeping the whole godsdamned team alive."

"Well, that ain't gonna fly. The other healer is DPSing."

"Well, yeah, that's why I was stuck keeping you all alive."

"Yeeeaaaah, we're going to have to kick you."

*gets kicked*

You know that's gonna happen.

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Originally Posted by Kikoten

Do I want an in-game parser?.

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Gonna wait till you post proof it happens often. Im being serious btw.

Just a basic "you could do better" in the form of tinted numbers... that would be enough I think...
99 <highest possible
99 <best
99 <better
99 <good
99 <lowest possible
or something along those lines.

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Originally Posted by Launched

How's it not going to help? If you can't keep BotD up until you run out of TP, or Enochian for 5 minutes on a dummy, you don't know your job well enough. Boss fights in dungeons are easy enough that apart from mechanics like frogs/dolls in Antitower, you shouldn't be away from the boss long enough to drop a buff. You learn your job on a dummy, then when you're learning actual fights you be careful with the timers (use Blizzard IV to reapply Enochian at 10s so you don't have to worry about mechanics, use Geirskogul when the BotD timer is closer to 30s than the 21s minimum). You don't just "forget" to use the buffs that are a huge part of the job at 60.


But you apparently have all 3 healers at 60. Why don't the 3 Esuna skills all share the same hotkey? Same for other similar skills like Cure/Physick/Benific. I can't say I have any trouble remembering my hotkeys, and I have every job at 60 because I keep them consistent between jobs. My melee combos share the same skills. My caster DoTs do too. Buffs/debuffs are on the same keys on each job, and so are similar skills like Shroud of Saints and Luminiferous Aether.

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Man, this is the utter truth of this game. It is not rocket science but I feel like most of the posters in this topic treat the game as that, "Overly complicated" "So many skills I can't wrap my head around it" "Mechanics keep me moving so I can cast (BLM, SMN(?lol), MCH, and BRD)".

Every job in this game currently is literally a replica of another genre type. Like Launched said, he sets his hotbars for his healers to reflect the other two setups...makes hitting the most used buttons easier, some variation easily yes but its seriously common sense...

How does this relate to the use of a parser...

So, you've trained on the dummy and have committed to muscle memory you 6 button rotation, 5 cross class skill usage, 4-6 OGCD weave-ins...cool...now to apply this to an enemy that could move, change its position so you need to compensate and move yourself to hit your positional, vary your rotation to compensate the many differences that a boss battle can bring when doing EX primals or savage fights with random people from your server.

With a parser, you realize, "Hey, my damage is much lower than it was on the dummy...I wonder why...let me try that again and see if I can apply my practice in a different way to up my DPS." (Best case scenario...lol player base)

WIthout a parser, you condemn or are completely apathetic to the fact that things aren't going anywhere, "It can't be me...I mastered my rotation on the dummy...sure, when the boss flips off the screen for a moment it disrupts my combo but its nothing to worry about right?"

A lot of people are labeling this tool as something that is ammo to harass people, its something that the endgame community could really take advantage of to increase its numbers. People in general could use this tool to better themselves. But to a lot people its a loaded gun pointed at their head rather than a pencil and paper there to help with "hard math".

At this point the endgame community will continue to blacklist players who can't pull their weight in EX trials in fear that this person may join a PF farm of A5S and screw that up too.

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Originally Posted by WeekendSoja

At this point the endgame community will continue to blacklist players who can't pull their weight in EX trials in fear that this person may join a PF farm of A5S and screw that up too.

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Which is ironically a kind of abuse (needlessly blacklisting people for personal reasons). Sure it's not as bad as, saying, swearing or offending someone but it's an abuse of a feature that its main purpose was to help someone avoiding people who potentially harass or offend someone, not to ignore people who do bad dps "because we only need pros to beat this ginarmous boss". Any feature that is used in ways against its original intent IS abuse afterall.

And you kind of nailed it with a key word there: "Fear". I constantly see fear of abuse, fear toxicity, fear of harassment, while the truth is that "they are all in the game: you just don't notice it". We already have abusive players (housing exploits - get ready to run people!), we already have toxic people (those who won't allow people to join unless he/she's done this this and that), and we already have people harassing others (I was harassed for overpulling, but the tank wasn't pulling properly and instead blamed me. Plus it was AV)

I do agree that parser could be a tool to improve someone - as well as a tool to harass others - but I think that considering how many cases of harassments don't come from parser alone (actually it seems it's the least common cause of harassment), I still think that one day SE should let us give a try and see how it goes.

Worst that happens? They remove it, anti-parsers will be happy, pro-parsers will use their own version. Everyone's happy. More or less.

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Originally Posted by Kikoten

Do I want an in-game parser?

Fuck no.

"WHM, it says here on my little Parser-doodle that you did lower DPS than the rest of us so far this run."

"Well, yeah, because I was keeping the whole godsdamned team alive."

"Well, that ain't gonna fly. The other healer is DPSing."

"Well, yeah, that's why I was stuck keeping you all alive."

"Yeeeaaaah, we're going to have to kick you."

*gets kicked*

You know that's gonna happen.

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I main WHM and that never happens on SCH maybe if your the back up healer and your not dps when you can be.

It may also be a wake-up call for DPS when they see they are doing less damage then a WHM which happens quite often when I do dungeons.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7343/2...e4e320c9_o.jpg

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Highly accurate.

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NAILED IT! If only I could like this more than once.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7343/2...e4e320c9_o.jpg

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That's too bad. Those tend to be the best healers. Considering that those types tend to be trying to push their jobs to the upper limits, they very rarely let the tank die in favor of DPS since A.) it's usually pretty noticeable that they are failing their primary job and B.) once the tank is dead, their own numbers will plummet due to their own rapidly coming demise. Thus, the vast majority of the DPS pushing healers that I've encountered very rarely let me die as a tank. Also if they've hit the accuracy cap, that tends to correlate with Alexander Savage experience and if you can heal Savage, you can sure as hell heal the Lawltower or the rare occurrence of Lol City of Amdapor without much issue.

I'm not Selene's pet... she's my pet... I'm the Main Healers pet, who uses his own pet. >:[ I'm a sentient intelligence that will heal without their command, just as selene it's a sentient VI, that can embrace. xF

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Wow. And you got upset with me because you thought I was exaggerating. Speechless~

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I'm not upset because I thought you exaggerating, I'm more upset that you think great healers do medica 2 when there is no raid aoe or when tank loses a bit HP. That makes me more upset than anything.

Now, where did I say that? I've never once actually given my criteria upon which a healer can be considered 'great'.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Now, where did I say that? I've never once actually given my criteria upon which a healer can be considered 'great'.

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Because you simply agree with people who talks down on people who are healers, who happens to dps. My bad, I shouldn't said that, because you haven't really given a criteria or opinion even on what a good healer is or not, but the way you agree with others.

Also you have mentioned people get kicked for not dpsing, it might have happened, but it doesn't happen often. If anything many people find healers dpsing in roulettes more welcome than those who sit there and do nothing.

I've seen more healers let tanks die when they never dps than tanks die to healers dpsing. If the healer dps the adds mostlikely die faster which leads to mitigation and the mitigation are dead adds, so the tank takes no dmg. Holy is OP too, stun is amazing and works like a mini HG for a few seconds, love it. Take my apology for putting words in your mouth, that doesn't make me any better from what I've told people in this thread earlier. I admit it, but then again, don't agree with people and make me or anyone else think you mean dps healers are bad, if anything they are better than those who sit there do nothing. Or the healers who heals in seph extreme and both have 3k mp before adds, while other people have healers who have one dpsing till adds pop and do some minimal for aoe before adds pop or simply the amazing healers solo healing the fight without any mch or brds.

Many healers overheal like crazy and that doesn't mean they do a good job or even doing the job correct. Vault is an amazing example where healers overheal and let people die if people even do the mechanics correct. Why do people die? No MP.

Gotta admit tho, everytime I join a expert roulette alone I do have a laugh because I see mechanics I've never seen before and panic and don't know how to do them hahaha.

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Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

I've seen more healers let tanks die when they never dps than tanks die to healers dpsing. If the healer dps the adds mostlikely die faster which leads to mitigation and the mitigation are dead adds, so the tank takes no dmg.

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In my experience, the reason that this happens is because the non-dpsing healer is not paying attention to anything at all and is watching netflix etc. If a healer is DPSing, they tend to do that in the downtime when they don't need to heal, never letting a GCD go to waste, those are GOOD healers, and the ignorance shown by the previous posters is unbelievable.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

In my experience, the reason that this happens is because the non-dpsing healer is not paying attention to anything at all and is watching netflix etc. If a healer is DPSing, they tend to do that in the downtime when they don't need to heal, never letting a GCD go to waste, those are GOOD healers, and the ignorance shown by the previous posters is unbelievable.

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Overheal is also part of the problem too. I just dont get some peoples logic, using medica 2 and there was never anything that even hit the party or the worse one spamming cure 2 when tank even pops cd.
The worse one is they overheal so bad they don't even have any MP for the boss or next set of adds. I don't really care what people say in here, because everyone has their opinion, but it does get out of hand when people act like it happens in every dungeon a non dps healer gets kicked from 1 out of 3 dungeons, it really is silly. The worse part is when people looks down on people who try or actually want to push their limits and do even a better job, while the lazy side, well.... ''it's just a roulette, so I don't need to use any skill I've obtained through the leveling'' ''I can do this on my own phase, theres no need to try''. People with this sort of attitude, doesn't belong in groups at all. Does it sound mean? Sure, but is it the truth? Absolutely.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

In my experience, the reason that this happens is because the non-dpsing healer is not paying attention to anything at all and is watching netflix etc. If a healer is DPSing, they tend to do that in the downtime when they don't need to heal, never letting a GCD go to waste, those are GOOD healers, and the ignorance shown by the previous posters is unbelievable.

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Is it the ignorance of people that you're complaining about or their tolerance?

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Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

The worse part is when people looks down on people who try or actually want to push their limits and do even a better job, while the lazy side, well.... ''it's just a roulette, so I don't need to use any skill I've obtained through the leveling'' ''I can do this on my own phase, theres no need to try''. People with this sort of attitude, doesn't belong in groups at all.

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I just have one question for you. By "any skill" do you actually mean "every skill"? I ask because it makes a difference: not using any skill can mean using no skills at all or not using one skill in particular. Every skill means, well they should be using every skill they get.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

Is it the ignorance of people that you're complaining about or their tolerance?

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I was referring to those who think that healer DPS (in the case of the post, specifically SCH) is bad. In current dungeons, tanks do not take much damage, and healing 90% of the time can be handled with selene, lustrate, and a few adlos every now and then, which gives healers a lot of breathing room to DPS, and if they aren't then they are either being lazy, or severely overhealing (or both), and the posts seem to suggest that doing so is how it should be, hence the ignorance comment.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I was referring to those who think that healer DPS (in the case of the post, specifically SCH) is bad. In current dungeons, tanks do not take much damage, and healing 90% of the time can be handled with selene, lustrate, and a few adlos every now and then, which gives healers a lot of breathing room to DPS, and if they aren't then they are either being lazy, or severely overhealing (or both), and the posts seem to suggest that doing so is how it should be, hence the ignorance comment.

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First, thanks for the clarification. I didn't really see any of their comments saying healers DPSing being bad. I saw it as them arguing that Healer DPS shouldn't be their first priority; that a healer in dungeons shouldn't have to have accuracy gear and materia. Personally, I would like to even argue with you slightly in that: A healer that makes sure no one dies is an "OK" healer- they're doing the bare minimum their job requires. A healer that makes sure no one dies and contributes with DPS when available or comfortable is a "good" healer- they're doing what their role requires and then some. Your "good" healer scenario with a healer that plays at 100% all the time would then be an "excellent" healer- they're playing their class to the fullest.

Now, disclaimer incoming, I am certainly not going to claim that I am an excellent healer by your standards. But for the sake of argument, let's pretend that in raiding situations, I am and that I find that stressful. Is it going to harm anyone if I relax a bit and go down to "good" status for content that doesn't require me to play at peak performance? Am I a bad healer for not using Presence of Mind to spam holy, for example? Or for not using Fluid Aura because I know it's going to kick the mob not only out of range of holy, but my black mage's flares/fire2 and my summoner's Shadow Flare?

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

Now, disclaimer incoming, I am certainly not going to claim that I am an excellent healer by your standards. But for the sake of argument, let's pretend that in raiding situations, I am and that I find that stressful. Is it going to harm anyone if I relax a bit and go down to "good" status for content that doesn't require me to play at peak performance? Am I a bad healer for not using Presence of Mind to spam holy, for example? Or for not using Fluid Aura because I know it's going to kick the mob not only out of range of holy, but my black mage's flares/fire2 and my summoner's Shadow Flare?

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(Disclaimer: I'm not a raid healer, so this is all second hand info, I also play SCH, and not the other healers, so I recognise that they have more intensive MP management, which can restrict DPS)

In all honesty, raid healing is a different beast to dungeon healing as a whole. You tend to have a dedicated healer who spends 100% of the time (except the odd enrage push) healing, and you have the off-healer who's job is to DPS when they can and contribute to healing when they are needed (duel tank mechanics and heavy damage output). When in a dungeon scenario, I would label the healer in the offhealer camp, healing when needed and spending the rest of the time DPSing, which isn't to say that they are a DPS, rather saying that the button that is pressed on any given GCD should be the one that will benefit the party most.

This is all off topic anyway, so I will segway back by saying that healers do not need parsers, and the devs are trying to discourage the requirement of healer DPS with accuracy limitations, but what this means is that the job falls back on DPS to pick up the slack. No role should be complacent in their job, it just so happens that a complacent DPS doesn't directly cause wipes, and that is why they seem to get a free pass, which isn't how it should be in my eyes.

Edit: regarding your comment about "relaxing in a stressful situation". The answer to that is that you hit the best button for the situation, if you have to heal then heal, if you have room to DPS then do so. All of your buttons are there for a reason and should be recognised as such. Now obviously you don't have to use them all (fluid aura being extreamly situational for example), but at least recognising where you would use each skill is recommended (if not essential) for hardcore content.

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Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

Why do every other class need to have an accountability, while the dps have to get away? You still dont see my point.

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Do you bother checking gear on every DPS when you enter a roulette ?
Considering Antitower and Amdapor are unlocked at ilvl 180 and the max ilvl you can attain is 240, it's expected to have a huge window of acceptable DPS numbers.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Considering Antitower and Amdapor are unlocked at ilvl 180 and the max ilvl you can attain is 240, it's expected to have a huge window of acceptable DPS numbers.

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In i180, every DPS class is able to deal 1k+ DPS without being at the top end of class skill.

The "window" is not that huge as you claim.

And DPS numbers that were already not good at Lvl 50 are more bad at Lvl 60.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

reason that this happens is because the non-dpsing healer is not paying attention to anything at all and is watching netflix etc. If a healer is DPSing, they tend to do that in the downtime when they don't need to heal, never letting a GCD go to waste, those are GOOD healers.

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This is true, and happend to me once. I was in a VA run as WHM, the other healer was also WHM. Since I noticed she only healed, I asked her if it was alright if I would DPS more, and also asking our Bard to sing Foe Requim (not only for me tho, since the other groups had BLM and SMN) but he refused to sing, since my DPS was not important. The other members of the group also we're saying I shouldn't DPS as healer, and if I DPS'd they would kick me. So I only healed, but was bored because this, and our group died. I just can't concentrate if I just need to heal, since you don't need to cast all the time.

Personally, I would use an in-game parser, but I don't require it.
If they made it so that after dungeon/boss fights or dummy sparring it gave you a break down of your DPS in a results window that only you could see, I think that would be okay.
Truth be told though, I am aware of SE's reasons for not offering a party-wide parser because of the fighting it could cause, but like I said, I'd be okay with it if the results were something ONLY your character could see.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

I just have one question for you. By "any skill" do you actually mean "every skill"? I ask because it makes a difference: not using any skill can mean using no skills at all or not using one skill in particular. Every skill means, well they should be using every skill they get.

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Yeah good question, what I meant was using 1 skill in particular, like DRG's not using blood of dragons, blms not using enochian. Keep in mind I know it's hard to keep up between pulls but using will still increase your dmg and help killing adds faster. Some people ignore this. Like some brds wont use their 30% dmg stance (forgot the name). Or some brds just manually cast their dots instead of re-applyin it with their new skill. Just a few examples. Glad you asked tho, so I could make myself more clear.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Do you bother checking gear on every DPS when you enter a roulette ?
Considering Antitower and Amdapor are unlocked at ilvl 180 and the max ilvl you can attain is 240, it's expected to have a huge window of acceptable DPS numbers.

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Not really, but when you see a guy is about 10-15 Ilvl behind another person and has weaker weapon, but does more, something wrong is going on. The dps checks exist in this game because that makes the game balanced. Healers have to heal certain aoe, tank busters, while tank has to handle them, that's where the dps comes in and needs to do their job. Imagine if every tank and healer had the same way of attitude many dps people have? Don't you think there would been alot more wipes in roulettes? I'm sure it would.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

Is it going to harm anyone if I relax a bit and go down to "good" status for content that doesn't require me to play at peak performance?

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Edit: regarding your comment about "relaxing in a stressful situation". The answer to that is that you hit the best button for the situation, if you have to heal then heal, if you have room to DPS then do so. All of your buttons are there for a reason and should be recognised as such. Now obviously you don't have to use them all (fluid aura being extreamly situational for example), but at least recognising where you would use each skill is recommended (if not essential) for hardcore content.

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What he said. I want to add that there is many times both healers doesn't need to even heal at all and that leaves either healer alone to do soemthing else. I find raid amazingly fun to heal, because I was intended to heal since final coil but never happened and I was put as DPS. Now we found some cool ninja for the group so I said it's fine to go sch, because I've always wanted to try. It's perfect for me because I know how our WHM heals and it lets me do more than just dmg mitigation/healing for the group.

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Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

Gonna wait till you post proof it happens often. Im being serious btw.

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That'd be difficult, considering Square Enix's stance on Naming/Shaming, and people being unwilling to post screenshots because of that. You need only look at the nature of people, and how they act on the internet. Give this a read:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ly_preventing/

That's about all I can do.

EDIT: I could tell you about my few experiences I had with people whom I could have just seen using the parser as a means to harass the party, one of them being a boisterous raid leader I met while running Haukke Manor NM. The SOB treated it like a godsdamned high-end raid. Here this guy was, decked out in top-of-the-line gear, and the Dragoon in the party, who looked to be in their mid-30s, ran ahead of the party once. He stuck his nose in the air and started talking down to that person. Then about 5 minutes later, the "raid leader" initiates a vote-kick for that Dragoon, out of nowhere. I vote "No," but, of course, the Dragoon still gets kicked. I ask the "raid leader" why, and he gave me some bullshit about how the Dragoon kept running ahead of the party (despite me seeing him do it only once), and what I say doesn't matter, because I don't tank, I just sit in the back, twanging my bow (I was playing bard @ the time).

I can see someone like THAT abusing the parser system. Like I said, that was just one of few experiences I had. People in FFXIV, as well as people in just about any MMO, are douchebags. Sometimes, even the nice ones. Give someone a parser, guess what that invites.

EDIT 2: I was running Lost City of Amdapor. The PLD tank decided to remove Shield Oath after one wipe. I had to work my ass off keeping him alive, taking away my ability to DPS as much as before. After the last boss, the tank: "Nobody likes a healer who doesn't DPS." *leaves* Imagine him with an in-game parser. There are a LOT of people like him.

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Originally Posted by Vespar

Personally, I would use an in-game parser, but I don't require it. If they made it so that after dungeon/boss fights or dummy sparring it gave you a break down of your DPS in a results window that only you could see, I think that would be okay.
Truth be told though, I am aware of SE's reasons for not offering a party-wide parser because of the fighting it could cause, but like I said, I'd be okay with it if the results were something ONLY your character could see.

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The thing is, a personal parser would do very little to address many of the issues being discussed. For example, in the quote below...

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Originally Posted by Reisui

This is true, and happend to me once. I was in a VA run as WHM, the other healer was also WHM. Since I noticed she only healed, I asked her if it was alright if I would DPS more, and also asking our Bard to sing Foe Requim (not only for me tho, since the other groups had BLM and SMN) but he refused to sing, since my DPS was not important. The other members of the group also we're saying I shouldn't DPS as healer, and if I DPS'd they would kick me. So I only healed, but was bored because this, and our group died. I just can't concentrate if I just need to heal, since you don't need to cast all the time.

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- it is quite clear the party is unaware of how much WHM DPS can do, and also is unaware of how much damage Foe's helps. Having a party/raid wide parser would help them see that healer DPS is definitely significant. Here is an example: http://www.fflogs.com/reports/crbTXf...pe=damage-done On that you can see I was 10th in the raid for DPS and placed above 6 other DPS jobs. Outside of the very top DPS, I did >2/3 the damage of any DPS. It's not an insignificant contribution.

In addition to preventing ignorant comments such as threatening to kick someone who is simply trying to contribute, it may also help people realize that they are performing quite poorly. In that FFLogs, the 3 DRG's, 1 MCH, 1 BRD and 1 BLM that I out DPSd really shouldn't have had DPS that low. A parser could have told them much earlier in their gaming (while doing some leveling dungeon, or maybe a level 50 dungeon, or what-have-you) that they are DPSing less than healers/tanks. This, hopefully, would be incentive enough to have some of them work to improve. I've said it many times, but there is very little motivation to improve yourself if you don't know there is anything to improve.

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Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

Not really, but when you see a guy is about 10-15 Ilvl behind another person and has weaker weapon, but does more, something wrong is going on. The dps checks exist in this game because that makes the game balanced. Healers have to heal certain aoe, tank busters, while tank has to handle them, that's where the dps comes in and needs to do their job. Imagine if every tank and healer had the same way of attitude many dps people have? Don't you think there would been alot more wipes in roulettes? I'm sure it would.

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Agree with you Seraphix, one thing to note though is that healer and tank accountability is often capped more than a DPS. So for example, in an expert roulette boss, a tank buster will come that really only hits the tank for 75% of their HP. They can use a CD and I can shield them making it do less, but even then the tank won't die if I miss it. After we do our tank buster and shielding, there isn't really more mitigation we can do. Conversely, a DPS can meet a DPS check, but even once they have done that they can actually push more DPS. That is a key difference I think.

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Originally Posted by Kikoten

That'd be difficult

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I have posted few in here and remove their names. And they are from true events. Some examples with screenshot and remove their names is fine. No name shame in that. I'm aware jerks using them too, so I dont avoid that, however you guys talk like it happens 1/3dungeons. In nearly every i join i see 50% under performers. There are more of those than pro parser harrassing. I havent seen a single proof it happens alot yet, which makes it hard to believe.

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Originally Posted by Kikoten

I could tell you about my few experiences I had with people whom I could have just seen using the parser as a means to harass the party, one of them being a boisterous raid leader I met while running Haukke Manor NM. The SOB treated it like a godsdamned high-end raid. Here this guy was, decked out in top-of-the-line gear, and the Dragoon in the party, who looked to be in their mid-30s, ran ahead of the party once. He stuck his nose in the air and started talking down to that person. Then about 5 minutes later, the "raid leader" initiates a vote-kick for that Dragoon, out of nowhere. I vote "No," but, of course, the Dragoon still gets kicked.

I can see someone like THAT abusing the parser system

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From your own example though, how could this guy be any more of an Ahole if a parser was added? some people are just jerks, whether there is a parser available or not. In fact, I'd even argue that it can only be a good way of maybe reigning in people like that, maybe they wouldn't be quite so vocal if we could all see their numbers as well,

I would point out though, that you use this as an example of abuse of a parser, but actually from what you've stated nowhere does this happen, he never mentioned any numbers, just kicked someone from running ahead?

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

snip

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To add to your point, it doesn't come up too often but I hear people complain about BRD's DPS being too low, and people might not realise where it's usefulness comes from. Imagine if you could see the damage boost from foe, the thing about BRD, and support classes in general is that a lot of the DPS is indirect in the form of buffs. More relevantly to myself is that until I started playing WAR properly and talking about it, the slashing debuff meant nothing to me, and for WAR's and NIN, they may not fully understand how much of a DPS increase it is for not only themselves, but other party members.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

To add to your point, it doesn't come up too often but I hear people complain about BRD's DPS being too low, and people might not realise where it's usefulness comes from. Imagine if you could see the damage boost from foe, the thing about BRD, and support classes in general is that a lot of the DPS is indirect in the form of buffs. More relevantly to myself is that until I started playing WAR properly and talking about it, the slashing debuff meant nothing to me, and for WAR's and NIN, they may not fully understand how much of a DPS increase it is for not only themselves, but other party members.

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aaaannddddd to add to what you are saying, having group parsers may help people realize that the skill of the player is often >>> the job. I saw so many MCH (and some BRD) shafted from Bismark EX parties because their DPS was too low. Meanwhile, their DPS was one of the top ones and the MNK/BLM (or w/e) had the lowest DPS. People just assume, "Oh, we're missing a DPS check, it must be because we have this one job SE hates, and not because the BLM doesn't know how to use Enochian yet."

while i might not use it having a personal parser there for me to use sounds good to me as a ps4 player hope that makes sense :)

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Agree with you Seraphix, one thing to note though is that healer and tank accountability is often capped more than a DPS. So for example, in an expert roulette boss, a tank buster will come that really only hits the tank for 75% of their HP. They can use a CD and I can shield them making it do less, but even then the tank won't die if I miss it. After we do our tank buster and shielding, there isn't really more mitigation we can do. Conversely, a DPS can meet a DPS check, but even once they have done that they can actually push more DPS. That is a key difference I think.

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Yes they can always push. Don't forget, many dps out there can do a fight and still kill shit, but doesn't mean they even did what they should been at or pushed over that limit.
Examples:
DPS 1 2 and 3 do 1300-1500 in seph extreme, while last one does 950. Okay so they kill it, but keep in mind you put that 950 dps guy in a group where dps do similar damage, which will cause to enrage mostlikely. If everyone tried to push hard, there would mostlikely be less enrage groups as well, because then everyone would been on the same page. It's bad luck ending up in a group where 4 dps doesn't do that much and farm groups turn into enrage parties. DPS gets away more than anything, especially the ones who do super low that there are 2-3 in the group who does so good that they could probably do it without that last dps. This happens too often and this is how dps gets a free ride compare to tanks and healers.

Would I like one? Yes , because I need to know the details of what I'm doing in order to improve. I like to see how I'm doing versus the other healers, especially other scholars. I want to know exactly how many times I've landed crit aldo, etc.

Since no one has anything better to do right now... :D

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

Yes, but I would only like a personal in game parser.

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THIS. A personal one viewable only by you.

No, I dont think SE has the ability to compete with the current 3rd party parsers that work wonders, look astounding, fit perfectly with the UI and can be customized to the core. SE is incapable of offering anything to this table. Also the PS3/4 users would still feel envy (or whatever) for having a shait non-editable parser compared to PC users.

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Originally Posted by Noutaja

No, I dont think SE has the ability to compete with the current 3rd party parsers that work wonders, look astounding, fit perfectly with the UI and can be customized to the core. SE is incapable of offering anything to this table. Also the PS3/4 users would still feel envy (or whatever) for having a shait non-editable parser compared to PC users.

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I am sure ps4 players would welcome any type of parser right now for endgame raids you need to rely on a PC player for it.

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Originally Posted by Noutaja

No, I dont think SE has the ability to compete with the current 3rd party parsers that work wonders, look astounding, fit perfectly with the UI and can be customized to the core. SE is incapable of offering anything to this table. Also the PS3/4 users would still feel envy (or whatever) for having a shait non-editable parser compared to PC users.

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PC users will not feel envy when they play like working on office desk while PS4 users laying on sofa and playing on a 60inch TV.
And PS4 users will not feel envy for having a shait non-editable parser that still better than no parser. ^^;