An Open Letter to Yoshida-san: Please Slice One Zero Off the Housing Prices

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Originally Posted by 3motion

A game doesn't mean everything gets handed out to you. Nice try

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Show me where anyone is asking that? People are saying that they put in three months (some have been saving for longer than that, this "feature" hasn't exactly been a secret since the 1.0 days) of savings to give them more than enough for a small plot based on a price estimate given by Yoshi himself. Not a single person is saying give it for me for nothing. None. I also don't see anyone saying that the medium to large houses shouldn't be considerably more expensive than the entry level stuff, nor do I see anyone having any arguments about how long it takes to get/make furniture. The whole "get everything handed to you" argument is a strawman, and nothing more.

FFXIV's housing so far is subpar compared to the housing available in literally any other MMO simply because it's so costly that it can't really even be counted as a feature for some people, and only 80% are even going to get access to it in three months. That definitely makes it not a feature for the majority of the gaming community for this patch (it makes it a "feature" for the next patch, which is suppose to be three months away), even though it was heavily advertised as such.

@ Sunarie

Lol...really sorry but the topic name already suggests reducing the prices to 1/10 of the current ones.
Now how much would a small plot cost on my server? 600-700k? How much effort is that? Around 20min for a 50 man guild if everyone donates?
That's literally getting handed out to you.

They should call FC Housing to the Guild Leader housing patch. So we all have to give ONE person millions and millions of gil to buy him a guild house?! So we are all broke and he is sitting pretty with a nice plot of land. Now what if he decides to just kick people for whatever reason, those people are out of luck?

Whoever devised this idea for guild housing should be fired. I am no way giving away all my gil, how little it is to make sure my guild leader has a nice house that he will let others have access too. Because at the end, these FC housing are Guild Leader housing.

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Originally Posted by 3motion

@ Sunarie

Lol...really sorry but the topic name already suggests reducing the prices to 1/10 of the current ones.
Now how much would a small plot cost on my server? 600-700k? How much effort is that? Around 20min for a 50 man guild if everyone donates?
That's literally getting handed out to you.

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And the creator of the topic is on a legacy server. His articles, and his posts, are about his prices. You also have to get your FC to rank 6 (so obviously some amount of work is required, even if the plot of land was free). For what a small plot is, how big it is, and the fact that you lose everything invested upon upgrading, it really should not be anything more than about 2.5mil for everyone. Just because you don't agree with slashing a 0 off -your- server's prices does not mean that all the prices are fine as is.

You must really hate FFXI, they gave you a house for free.. and everyone knows that game didn't require you to work for anything. <-sarcasm, in case you didn't catch it.

Also, before you go "well Yoshi said personal housing was going to be much cheaper".. he also said that about FC housing.

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Originally Posted by Sunarie

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Hey, I havent played FFXI so I cant say anything about it.

If he wants a zero slashed off on their prices, why can't we too? See that reasoning?
You can't please everyone in the game. It has and will always be like that.

I do not look down on you or your opinion nor try to bash you.
Also just sharing mine.

Edit : Oh and I won't reply to your post Roflcoptorz, even though you obviously meant me.
Nothing good will come out of it :)

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Originally Posted by 3motion

Hey, I havent played FFXI so I cant say anything about it.

If he wants a zero slashed off on their prices, why can't we too? See that reasoning?
You can't please everyone in the game. It has and will always be like that.

I do not look down on you or your opinion nor try to bash you.
Also just sharing mine.

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You're absolutely right, you cannot please everyone. However a game that wants to succeed is going to try and please most of it's player base, or at least try and get them to a point where they're -okay- with things but don't necessarily love them. Otherwise people quit and suddenly you're forced to shut down or go F2P.

You can want a price slash if you want, you obviously don't so I'm not even sure why you're saying that. Legacy players want to be brought down in line with others. And they have perfectly good reason. Their prices were way jacked up based on a few players having a lot of gil. Yoshi only cited a whooping 10, of everyone on the server. They don't get more per quest turn in, they don't get more per dungeon, and from what I have seen, their auction house prices are on par with those on the non-legacy servers. So since the in game economy and gil actually circulating (not just that being horded) seems to be about the same, why should their housing prices be higher?

Also, I wasn't arguing with you because of your opinion. I was pointing out you were/are making a strawman argument, which is putting words in people's mouth and distorting the actual problem.

I dont see me putting words in ANY person's mouth nor being offtopic. That's just plain rude.
The problem is just that their Server has way too much gil.
You wouldn't know if it is one person hoarding it or him/her being in the minority of the poor people.

And hey, I would take a price slash too anyday, but then people will complain again if they reduce the prices proportional because of our server being too cheap :)

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Originally Posted by 3motion

I dont see me putting words in ANY person's mouth nor being offtopic. That's just plain rude.
The problem is just that their Server has way too much gil.
You wouldn't know if it is one person hoarding it or him/her being in the minority of the poor people.

And hey, I would take a price slash too anyday, but then people will complain again if they reduce the prices proportional because of our server being too cheap :)

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Sorry, but you are. Saying people want things handed to them is doing exactly that, seeing as absolutely no one has said it. You don't know whether they are spending it either, and not even Yoshi knows if they will even spend it on housing. I can tell you that people don't obtain a ton of money, and become rich (be it in game or real life) by spending it all the time.

A lot of people got money through something that was overlooked going from 1.0 to 2.0, and which was really a bit of a dishonest thing to be doing. A lot of gil on that server is also likely RMT (I don't believe they got the mass bans that we suffered from a few months back because their players were able to bring gil in from 1.0, so people having a lot wasn't as suspicious). You don't punish players because a few are misbehaving. It isn't good business. That's it for me posting right now though.. seeing as I can actually play now that I have the game redownloaded.

I mentioned AH prices, as that is generally a fair indicator of gil in circulation. The more gil in circulation the less each individual gil is worth, and the higher price things are. So unless things on the legacy servers are for sell on the AH for 5x (or more) higher, then the circulation just isn't there to support the price difference.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

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This is exactly the problem...the Legacy servers are hit the worst and their claim is that "Well, y'all have more gil on the server itself, shouldn't be a problem of linear progression like the rest of the servers with obtaining gil." That's ridiculous. I came to this game with 250k gil, and there are many like me. YES there are people in my FC that have large sums of gil...2 people to be exact. And we looked at it and if they threw every single bit of gil in, we still wouldn't even be able to afford the cheapest large plot of land. Our LS transferred from 1.0 and had been working on making money for housing since then and since the beginning of 2.0. That's at least a year of paid subscription of people busting hump to be able to afford housing and then we get slapped with this.

Of course, people will ask, why do you want the large plot of land? If you check our Free Company, Pandemonium, we are the 10th on the server in active members out of 1300(ish), we are literally .8% of the population and have a good amount of members. The only people who beat us out in membership are essentially blanket invite shout FCs. Our heads have played the market, made an amazing chunk of change, and we still don't have enough to even get close to the cheap plots we would like. Have we not worked hard enough? Were weeks of materia SB farming and then fighting the markets and the RNG for new materia not enough? We now have to grind quests after beating out tons of people with our hard work? Simply because a small Illuminati-esque group HAS gil doesn't mean it should punish the server. There are 45 total large plots in the game...the largest FCs total less than that and that's assuming they all want one.

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Originally Posted by Sunarie

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And I'm sorry too, if you don't read the replies thoroughly then theres no point in discussion.

Last thing I want to point out is that the MB does indicate the gil circulation. Yes.
But it does not indicate how much gil a player has so stop bringing it up

Edit : Back to the game, spent quite alot of the time to read the pages actually

Hopefully I can buy a house soon

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Originally Posted by 3motion

And I'm sorry too, if you don't read the replies thoroughly then theres no point in discussion.

Last thing I want to point out is that the MB does indicate the gil circulation. Yes.
But it does not indicate how much gil a player has so stop bringing it up

Edit : Back to the game, spent quite alot of the time to read the pages actually

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I'm sad that you can't (or won't) see how you are putting words in other people's mouths by dismissing their concerns as just, "They want things handed to them."

you have many programers at your disposal why would you take the risk of upsetting so many players who were looking forward to housing! why not program something so players and FC's could only have ONE house who needs more then ONE like really. I am quite upset with this and so are many of my FC mates how hard would it have been to make one little program to assure everyone would get a house. Not only could this problem have been solved it is your ONLY reasoning as to why pricing is so high. I went through the work of running dungeons and saving as much gil as i could so my house could enjoy housing as soon as possible and now we have to wait ANOTHER THREE MONTHS. sorry if i sound pissed off and upset but i am!

One of the problems as well is the delivery method.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out there are FC's on Sarg that have spent a combined amount far above 400 mill to upgrade characters. An over meld here, an over meld there. Boots today, an ear ring the next.

With housing though, it's one bill all at once and cash up front.

TBH this system should have been done in a shares system. Buy shares in an FC land deed and be accountable to the people shelling out hundreds of millions of Gil. FC's don't actually have any money. It's all donations.

SE should hire ME instead, because I've come up with a solution in less than 1 minute (Apologies if its been mentioned, there's a LOT of posts to read). COMPANY CREDITS.
1) Its a COMPANY House, so why not use Company Credits, a resource accumulated through Company members to purchase FC houses?
2) Its impossible to scam/control/abuse a market where the currency is impossible to farm/trade/obtain illegally.
3) Limiting a FC to one house would instantly remove any chance of abuse, and this allows FCs to obtain a house appropriate for their size.
4) If they insist on consuming our gil, perhaps making the land purchasable with Credits and the houses themselves with Gil.
I think I just solved each and every issue. Comments and feedback appreciated.

They could just have a rent option. i.e. large house on a medium server would be like, 1mil a week, or 2mil a week. If you fail to pay rent, house goes up for resale and another FC can buy it.

If you think the prices are to high, there is a way to send that message to SE. It is something that cost you zero time and no effort, what I am talking about is this: Do not buy any land, just ignore the housing part until they lower the price to a level you are okey with. Seeing as they have talked a lot about this feature I am pretty sure they want it to be used, so if many players ignore it then they will lower the price sooner or later.

I understand that people want FC-housing, I also want that. However I refuse to waste my FCs money in order to buy something that cost way more then it is worth.

And here is a crazy idea, instead of these prices on FC-housing, how about this.
You go to your grand company and there you can do 3 different quests for them, these quests cost FC-credits and have to be completed with full FC groups. It would be multi-part and you would have to buy every part, if you fail a part you do not have to redo the parts you completed but you will have to buy said part again. If your FC is rank 7 or 8 you should also be able to bet a rank for added reward on parts of the quest.
1 quest is for a small area, it is not that difficult. So low risk and low reward.
1 quest is for the medium area, the difficulty is in the middle. Some risk and some reward.
1 quest id for the large area, this one is difficult. High risk and high reward.
There would be no rich players buying all the land AND it would make all the members feel like the house was something they worked for together.

Hello everyone, new player here and i dont speack english very well, but let me try to explain what i think abaur the HOuses systems.

Is so hard to some players farm that lot of money, Why u dont make one Medium house in every land and give it free in a game tournament. Like an event, during 1 or 2 week...that will give a chance to "ppl who dont have a life to farm all that money" to have one a couple of weeks. The game tournament/event will ve a simple game like a Chocobo Race,Or make a sea and that players need to found a "treasure box in to the sea" hide into a big boat into the sea whit lot of rooms or dunno! who wanna sing up need before to work whit hes team farming something. The FC who give u more items farmed,can participate in that event/game tournament.

Sorry for that english but i hope all of u can understand what is my point. I think will be funny that "games" They is 3 lands, so that will be 3 diferent events every 2 weeks. Regards everyone and have funny!

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Originally Posted by LoLo

but teleports and repairs are hardly ever that much gil. Like you can easily make that money back. How is 500-5000 gil a day expensive?

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There are people who overcomplicate things and people who oversimplify them (you), you are leaving so many variables out of your comments concerning the market in later statements concerning gathering and crafting it's a real curiosity, things such as elevated competition, market glutting due to said new demand for housing gil, and massive undercutting as a result.

And before you ask I played the AH in FFxi for over 8 years, your assumptions that gil is so easy to come by marketwise seems to suggest that nothing changes when a massive new need for gil is patched in.

Might want to think that over again, the prices are too high for housing, this patch was botched.

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Originally Posted by TheDeathWish

I think they are calculating all the RMT bots and traders with all the gil, dont get me wrong they are keeping up well but not everyone wants to spend game time reporting RMT

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So I'm to believe that having a whopping 4, count 'em FOUR RMTs deleted from my list of 142? Over half have been there since the first week of the game! And each and everyone has been reported using SE's preferred method of reporting RMT.
Four...good lord.

So I went today before maintenance again to the Uldah housing place and still 0 houses up and I'm on our ultra rich Hyperion. Gj SE /workingasintendedps3limitations

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Originally Posted by LordBelialX

SE should hire ME instead, because I've come up with a solution in less than 1 minute (Apologies if its been mentioned, there's a LOT of posts to read). COMPANY CREDITS.
1) Its a COMPANY House, so why not use Company Credits, a resource accumulated through Company members to purchase FC houses?
2) Its impossible to scam/control/abuse a market where the currency is impossible to farm/trade/obtain illegally.
3) Limiting a FC to one house would instantly remove any chance of abuse, and this allows FCs to obtain a house appropriate for their size.
4) If they insist on consuming our gil, perhaps making the land purchasable with Credits and the houses themselves with Gil.
I think I just solved each and every issue. Comments and feedback appreciated.

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See this guy knows what he's talking about,

Point 1: This would have been a much easier and less controversial way of acquiring housing.
Point 2: This "Is Going To Happen", some FC leader is already planning his/her extortion of FC members gil.
Point 3: I was of the opinion that this was already in place, if it isn't SE just made themselves a problem that didn't need to exist at all.
Point 4: SE has waged such vicious war on RMT"s, it's hard to understand why an overabundance of gill has anything to do with housing costs in the first place. I guess because some players saved large amounts of gill they need to be bled dry of it now, acquiring it in perfectly legitimate ways, Of course I still see the same mining bots in Eastern Thanalan iv'e seen for weeks now, who knew.?

So i didn't go through all the pages of comments, but why didn't you guys just restrict the amount of houses instead of setting prices so high? oO
This is one of the most questionable things you've done so far...
With the thing, i couldn't sell any raidloot to other people and don't waste my limited time and money on craftingclasses, me and my friends will never afford any of this houses...

Pls think a little bit more about the most disturbing issues and take help from other people. Communicating is very helpful in business. Other games have features we would like too, and if you don't respond on our problems and questions properly, more and more people will leave to other games faster than lightning...

so think about your future, i know the pressure is high but being overpatiant and paying money for this is hard for most people. You've done good work with 2.1, but there are some ugly things you should fix and change, so keep up the work and build up a solid game first instead of programming nearly useless events. ;)

The explanation makes complete sense if you have a brain. Thanks SE for trying to protect the players, even if most can't understand that. +1 Yoshi

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Originally Posted by omgitsDavid

The explanation makes complete sense if you have a brain. Thanks SE for trying to protect the players, even if most can't understand that. +1 Yoshi

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I think you missed my Company Credits argument... In fact the only use for credits is Actions. My FC has at the most 10 people on per day, and we always make more credits than we spend. So why not give those Credits some concrete use? My post is a few posts back; please check it out.

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Originally Posted by omgitsDavid

The explanation makes complete sense if you have a brain. Thanks SE for trying to protect the players, even if most can't understand that. +1 Yoshi

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i dont understand how its the player's fault they couldnt get the RMT problems under control. :3

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

i dont understand how its the player's fault they couldnt get the RMT problems under control. :3

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In a sense it is, since players create the market, and as long as people are willing to pay, there is a market, and as long as there is a market, there are going to be people determined to take advantage of it.

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Originally Posted by Muzy

In a sense it is, since players create the market, and as long as people are willing to pay, there is a market, and as long as there is a market, there are going to be people determined to take advantage of it.

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what about the legit players? doesnt seem fair to punish everyone for a few rotten apples dont u think? i would also like to bring up botting here. have u any idea how many people are botting in the game at any given moment? i can give u the specific spots where these botters are at. despite how many reports ive made on them. theyre still there. weeks upon weeks upon weeks.

Yoshi P, I'm afraid it's showing you have not been playing your own game.

Stop developing for a moment. Make a character on a legacy server, set a few DoW to 50, maybe a craft or two. Give yourself about 200k Gil.

Now play the game for a week or two. Let me know how you feel about house prices.

Overall I love the update but the house prices have been a crushing blow, morale is low in our FC and it's become stressful to play.

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Originally Posted by Dark-Saviour

But....
You knew this was coming.

You knew this was coming from the start.
Actually... You knew this was coming pre-2.Ø...

I just...
Why?
Why has it not been decided that the data centers should be upgraded to handle the game and all of its features in full?
Why does this continue to be such a limiting factor, and how long is this going to keep cropping up?

I wasn't likely to get FC housing anyway due to the rank requirement and the fact that, even at 'reasonable' prices, it'd be probably beyond a 1-person FC, but the thing that's been eating at me through all of this and what has made me so negative is specifically the concern expressed above; we keep running into issues because not enough investment is being made into the hardware...

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i know they keep not investing in the real meat of the game such as solid coding and proper server hardware

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

what about the legit players? doesnt seem fair to punish everyone for a few rotten apples dont u think? i would also like to bring up botting here. have u any idea how many people are botting in the game at any given moment? i can give u the specific spots where these botters are at. despite how many reports ive made on them. theyre still there. weeks upon weeks upon weeks.

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I know, it sucks, sadly too many people just go with the bigger hammer mentality and punish everyone. And ruin things for everyone.

Seriously what a weak excuse

If they want housing to be worked towards with a group of people in a free company, why not allow houses to be purchases with both gil/free company points?

I just want a house to live in Yoshi-san. I want to belong somewhere.

I like the idea of company coins instead of gil. This make purchasing a guild house into a group venture instead what we have now. Giving all our hard earn gil to ONE person and hoping later on he doesn't kick us out of his guild. I don't know about you but I don't feel good about buying ONE person (leader of the guild) a huge house to do as he pleases.

So as long as it is the way it is, I will not waste my gil to buy another person a house. I will wait for personal housing. And let other idiots piss away their gil to buy ONE person his house.

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Originally Posted by omgitsDavid

The explanation makes complete sense if you have a brain. Thanks SE for trying to protect the players, even if most can't understand that. +1 Yoshi

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It's good to see that you are willing to give gil to buy another person his house.

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

what about the legit players? doesnt seem fair to punish everyone for a few rotten apples dont u think? i would also like to bring up botting here. have u any idea how many people are botting in the game at any given moment? i can give u the specific spots where these botters are at. despite how many reports ive made on them. theyre still there. weeks upon weeks upon weeks.

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Those botters have the shard market cornered. Too bad the Devs can't get rid of shards being used in crafting. But I guess the Gil sellers will find another resource to sell.

complete support it's for fun, it doesn't make you stronger or w/e

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Snipped evasive Jargon that only means they spent far too many resources determined to point things in the wrong direction.

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Pretty much everything Yoshi-P said only means they won't really have Housing ready til the next patch. So why not just wait til the next patch instead of setting such a negative impression on Housing for the whole server currently just because `0.06% of the server population has over 100 million gil and u delusionally believe Housing is going to make them as poor as the rest of the population.

#1 Why does it matter that they have so much gil, if gil plays so little importance in anything else in the game? It's like saying it's not fair that Bill Gates is so wealthy when he needs to buy a roll of paper towels...

#2 How is this supposedly going to stop them from continuing to have such a massive amount of gil? If they have that much gil i doubt they just throw it all away for a house. If they were going to throw it away so easily they would of already. Especially since nothing with Housing is implemented aside from Vanity and it's already confirmed they will retain 100s of millions of gil if they just wait til next patch like everyone else. U really think they are going to spend an extra 1/2 billion gil on some servers, when they already know they won't have to next patch?

#3 If you really think it's such a bad thing about these people accruing so much wealth why not tackle the ways to their means? (predominantly Merc'ing) If it's such a bad thing they are wealthy, they are never going to stop being wealthy as long as their profit-making is still operating. If we're never going to have Legacy > non-Legacy server transfers until this 0.06% isn't wealthy anymore, then we're just never going to have those server transfers.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing they are wealthy, you are.

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Originally Posted by Lamentations

Point 2: This "Is Going To Happen", some FC leader is already planning his/her extortion of FC members gil.

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I already posted just a couple posts before Yoshida did about how Free Company housing is the equivalent of Relic Weapons from FFXI in that a large number of players were required to put forth effort to get ONE person an upgraded relic weapon (at a time).

Giving money to a Free Company works exactly the same in that the houses currently belong exclusively to the Free Company leader and any access restrictions/layout/furnishing decisions are ultimately theirs. A Free Company leader kicking you from their Free Company after you have donated would be the FFXI equivalent of server-hopping with the LS bank.

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Originally Posted by MagicWand

So as long as it is the way it is, I will not waste my gil to buy another person a house. I will wait for personal housing. And let other idiots piss away their gil to buy ONE person his house.

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Precisely this. If you ever give a Free Company gil in order to buy a house, you are a complete moron. I have no sympathy.

This idea that Free Company housing costs gil, and in such excessive amounts, is proof that the people running this game lack considerable amounts of common sense.