Difficult experience in Forked Tower – a reminder to respect public content

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The discords exist to fill a niche where this content can’t be completed without it. If they somehow managed to track and ban the use of discord in this content it wouldn’t free it up for people who don’t want to use discord it would just make the number of clears go to zero which you can see already in that any zone that doesn’t have a discord group In it the changes of a forked party “organically” forming are literally zero

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Well, you have to admit - if no one used Discord, the arguments of the game being too easy would evaporate.

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Originally Posted by Neclord

Take this and replace "Sniper" with "Prog Liar" and make it about PF and this just falls apart. Does the fact a glowy platform is the entrance to the content, rather than a PF menu, mean that players no longer need to show basic courtesy to the majority participants who are entering with a specific objective? These terms are negative by nature because the behaviour for both snipers and prog liars are fundamentally discourteous and selfish.

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Are you being deliberately misleading or do you genuinely not understand the differences between the two classes you are comparing? Your so called "snipers" are just playing the game as it was intended. Your "prog liars" are being deliberately deceptive for their own benefit (and it's probably your own fault for not checking their logs anyway). They are not the same thing, at all.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Which for the 8000th time the discords aren’t trying to organise people in this content for shits and giggles. Like do you really think discord would even be involved if this was CLL 2.0

The discords exist to fill a niche where this content can’t be completed without it. If they somehow managed to track and ban the use of discord in this content it wouldn’t free it up for people who don’t want to use discord it would just make the number of clears go to zero which you can see already in that any zone that doesn’t have a discord group In it the changes of a forked party “organically” forming are literally zero

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And this is the crux of the problem. WHY is content being created for this game that can't be completed without it. If content is legitimately being designed where none of the tools within the game can result in successful completion of said content, that is a problem. Folks pay their subscription for access to all the content XIV provides. Therefore, the content they are paying for should be accessible and playable utilizing the features within the game itself. If the team is creating content that requires so much planning, strategy, and coordination, you have to take to outside applications for success...well, the content shouldn't be in the game to begin with.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

And this is the crux of the problem. WHY is content being created for this game that can't be completed without it.

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Here's the thing - it all can be. People are just unwilling to use those methods because Discord's easier for them.

Case in point, there are deaf players who have not only cleared hardcore content, but have outperformed 99% of players who have no hearing impairment.

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Originally Posted by Anonemoose

Are you being deliberately misleading or do you genuinely not understand the differences between the two classes you are comparing? Your so called "snipers" are just playing the game as it was intended. Your "prog liars" are being deliberately deceptive for their own benefit (and it's probably your own fault for not checking their logs anyway). They are not the same thing, at all.

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I have no idea what you mean. The game allows players to join kill parties in PF when they have no experience with the content - they have a right to join because the game lets them. You shouldn't be expected to become a part of the logging intelligentsia to vet people joining and it quite clearly creates an "us vs them" environment where this 'clique' of loggers look down on a player's god given right to join any party the game allows them to. Take it up with SQEX - it's entirely their fault that PF is this way and it's clearly a design flaw.

Jokes aside, they aren't even require to lie to join a PF party they're not ready for. They simply don't need to read the description of the PF listing and it's the same premise. They join, they try their "best" and they inconvenience others because they are not being considerate.

You hold PF under a different standard because there is an established etiquette of what is and is not acceptable - built over years. That the glowy platform of Occult Crescent is more open to abuse than PF is an issue, but it does not mean the players throwing themselves into the tower are any less discourteous and out of line as a prog liar or someone who didn't check the strats on a PF listing would be.

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Originally Posted by Neclord

I have no idea what you mean. The game allows players to join kill parties in PF when they have no experience with the content - they have a right to join because the game lets them. You shouldn't be expected to become a part of the logging intelligentsia to vet people joining and it quite clearly creates an "us vs them" environment where this 'clique' of loggers look down on a player's god given right to join any party the game allows them to. Take it up with SQEX - it's entirely their fault that PF is this way and it's clearly a design flaw.

Jokes aside, they aren't even require to lie to join a PF party they're not ready for. They simply don't need to read the description of the PF listing and it's the same premise. They join, they try their "best" and they inconvenience others because they are not being considerate.

You hold PF under a different standard because there is an established etiquette of what is and is not acceptable - built over years. That the glowy platform of Occult Crescent is more open to abuse than PF is an issue, but it does not mean the players throwing themselves into the tower are any less discourteous and out of line as a prog liar or someone who didn't check the strats on a PF listing would be.

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For somebody to be a "prog liar" they need to be deliberately misrepresenting their progression in a particular Duty. That particular circumstance alone makes the rest of your post meaningless because you're conflating apples and oranges, and you either know you are but are doing it anyway (which is bad), or you just genuinely don't even understand what you're saying (which is also bad).

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Originally Posted by Akivar

I hate to break it to you discord people. But the content doesn't belong to just you. The content belongs to anyway that pays for the game and pays a subscription. They pay for access to this ride. If you do not like them attempt to ride it, that's on you.
If you dare ever try to harass me for trying to enjoy the content I pay for, I'll report you and hopefully nobody will never have to deal with you ever again.
Discord servers don't own any part of content. It would be like a discord server trying to our the roulette system. Imagine if you got into an alliance raid and a group was all like "hey you can't be here unless you join our discord.". Not one person here would be ok with that. Well Forked tower is basically a roulette to enter. Whoever gets in DESERVES to be there because they were chosen by the entry system. It is not YOUR content, it is everyone that was chosen to enter.
So get over yourselves. You are the ones breaking TOS.

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Boy it sure is a good thing that alliance roulettes aren't nearly so difficult or time consuming to enter that they require such organized efforts, huh Mr. Edgy Revolutionary?

You really dropped by with your first comment and thought you cooked, huh?

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Originally Posted by Anonemoose

For somebody to be a "prog liar" they need to be deliberately misrepresenting their progression in a particular Duty. That particular circumstance alone makes the rest of your post meaningless because you're conflating apples and oranges, and you either know you are but are doing it anyway (which is bad), or you just genuinely don't even understand what you're saying (which is also bad).

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Not the case. A Prog Liar can still be one without being deceptive as they can simply not read the PF listing about the prog point and be "trying their best." This applies to any other form of discourtesy as well (not reading strats/raidplans/etc). The fact is the only material difference is the method of entering the content is a glowy platform vs a PF menu and, of course, the number of players they are inconveniencing with their behaviour (48 vs 7).

You can still retain basic courtesy to other players if the way of entering the content is via a glowy platform. It is possible.

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Originally Posted by Neclord

Not the case. A Prog Liar can still be one without being deceptive as they can simply not read the PF listing about the prog point and be "trying their best." This applies to any other form of discourtesy as well (not reading strats/raidplans/etc). The fact is the only material difference is the method of entering the content is a glowy platform vs a PF menu and, of course, the number of players they are inconveniencing with their behaviour (48 vs 7).

You can still retain basic courtesy to other players if the way of entering the content is via a glowy platform. It is possible.

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Alright then, if that's how you see it. Good luck, I hope you do well in life.

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Originally Posted by Neclord

You hold PF under a different standard because there is an established etiquette of what is and is not acceptable - built over years. That the glowy platform of Occult Crescent is more open to abuse than PF is an issue, but it does not mean the players throwing themselves into the tower are any less discourteous and out of line as a prog liar or someone who didn't check the strats on a PF listing would be.

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I think that's what started this problem in the first place, cuz Field operation's etiquette only has one dungeon and that's BA, so I am not surprised most people who got into FT don't understand that politely asking you to join the premade and interact and read up on the mechs isn't bullying or gatekeeping. It's just the best way you have to clear that particular type of content.