I'm gonna say it. cause no one else will.

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Originally Posted by VictoriaLuv

excuse me you need keep quite.

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And yet, later on within the same paragraph...

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Originally Posted by VictoriaLuv

dont have right to tell people to shut it

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Again, I suggest you read the terms of service; you continue to harass people and create more threads of spam despite people politely asking you to stop. I really hope that moderators look at these threads soon, because you're making many people genuinely uncomfortable and also overcrowding the forum with lots of spam.

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Originally Posted by VictoriaLuv

half those 80s you bought off mogstation cause you were lazy

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While I don't want to much further engage with the majority of your harassment-containing post, I do want to point out that this particular excerpt of yours is yet another example of you harassing someone based on your own perpetuated misinformation; not only do you not have any actual proof that someone here boosted, but you literally can't boost directly to level 80 through the Mog Station, only to level 70, so your claim is also factually impossible. If you want to provide actual proof that shows otherwise, including for past lies such as falsely claimed leaks, then please go ahead; I sincerely want to see it.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

It's a shame because it really looked like the AoEs were triggered when the lilybell was hit, including when the WHM cast Holy III in the trailer. Even if you did nothing else but these 2 changes, it would already become a far more useful tool to work with: Hitting the Lilybell means you can place it in an area likely to get struck without having to put yourself in harms way (makes it more casual-friendly) and it allows you to make it less situational by forcing stacks to burn with Holy III, covering some lost DPS in the process (makes it more experienced-friendly). There's certainly the question of whether or not forcing it to trigger with Holy III would actually be worth it consdering it's still a loss, and how often would you really need to force extra uses from it, but at least the option would be there.

I was kind of hoping it would be something other than just a heal, but shame on me for expecting something that's not a heal on WHM.

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I don't mind that it heals but its just far too restrictive in how it procs for it to be very useful in the majority of content. At best, it'll allow the WHM to DPS more during some mechanic, like J-waves, while Lilybell and the other healer do the bulk of the healing but that's really all it does. In casual content its a 3 minute Earthly Star due to how little the WHM will actually be taking damage to proc the thing, unless they pull a BLM and purposefully get hit because "My Leylines Lilybell lets me DPS more".

It's just so underwhelming.

The more dps options a healer has available to them the more it is expected until it finally required for healers in savage to focus mainly on dps while the bare minimum healing becomes required, and then the focus on healing shifts for the entire rest of the game from 1 to level cap that healers must focus on bare minimum heals while focusing MAINLY on optimizing dps until healers are no longer healers because get ready for that end-game content where it's required now or be knocked flat when you get there. They are dps with heal options.

All because of a minor shift at end game. It's exactly what has happened with WoW. It's all about maximizing all subskills. WoW has reached a point where the leveling process doesn't even matter anymore; it's how quick you get to max lv and start getting that perfect dps gear for mythic, dps gear for tanks, and healers, too. The game itself now ONLY cares about mythic raiding or mythic + and that's a sad fate for what used to be such a fun journey. One that SE is wisely avoiding.

Does savage content matter? Yes, of course, it's the hardest content with the most skill requirement and some of the best rewards. Should savage content direct the entire game? Absolutely not. What a corn-filled ball of poo that'd be. Claiming savage content is the be all and end all is idiotic baiting with so little truth that it's a corny idea barely worth acknowledging.

It's the game as a whole that should direct how healers heal, not just the very hardest content, and SE has proclaimed that healers should never feel mandated to focus on dps output. People asking what my savage stats are have it backwards. Not everyone does savage.

Healers heal and that's all that should be expected, for the sake of the game. Are there downtimes? A few. So throw what you can and buffs before added dps, and be glad there are dps options at all.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

The more dps options a healer has available to them the more it is expected until it finally required for healers in savage to focus mainly on dps while the bare minimum healing becomes required, and then the focus on healing shifts for the entire rest of the game from 1 to level cap that healers must focus on bare minimum heals while focusing MAINLY on optimizing dps until healers are no longer healers because get ready for that end-game content where it's required now or be knocked flat when you get there. They are dps with heal options.

All because of a minor shift at end game. It's exactly what has happened with WoW. It's all about maximizing all subskills. WoW has reached a point where the leveling process doesn't even matter anymore; it's how quick you get to max lv and start getting that perfect dps gear for mythic, dps gear for tanks, and healers, too. The game itself now ONLY cares about mythic raiding or mythic + and that's a sad fate for what used to be such a fun journey. One that SE is wisely avoiding.

Does savage content matter? Yes, of course, it's the hardest content with the most skill requirement and some of the best rewards. Should savage content direct the entire game? Absolutely not. What a corn-filled ball of poo that'd be. Claiming savage content is the be all and end all is idiotic baiting with so little truth that it's a corny idea barely worth acknowledging.

It's the game as a whole that should direct how healers heal, not just the very hardest content, and SE has proclaimed that healers should never feel mandated to focus on dps output. People asking what my savage stats are have it backwards. Not everyone does savage.

Healers heal and that's all that should be expected, for the sake of the game. Are there downtimes? A few. So throw what you can and buffs before added dps, and be glad there are dps options at all.

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If you compare wow to ff 14 you know that wow healing is constant and pretty high in a lot of high end fights. Not being topped off as dps can kill you there pretty quick, also wow healer don’t have the amount of non mana cost spells we have in ff 14 and the option too regain mana as quick and in such massive amounts like ff 14 has. Combine not having constant dmg and long downtime plus ogcd heals in mass and no mana problems for a lot of situations you see why as a healer you need more stuff to do as dmg option. Either that or they need to change encounter design as we know it.

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Originally Posted by Mortex

If you compare wow to ff 14 you know that wow healing is constant and pretty high in a lot of high end fights. Not being topped off as dps can kill you there pretty quick, also wow healer don’t have the amount of non mana cost spells we have in ff 14 and the option too regain mana as quick and in such massive amounts like ff 14 has. Combine not having constant dmg and long downtime plus ogcd heals in mass and no mana problems for a lot of situations you see why as a healer you need more stuff to do as dmg option. Either that or they need to change encounter design as we know it.

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wow healers also have a lot more damage options.

holy paladin has a melee attack builds holy power, a ground dot around them, a spell that can heal or dps depending on who they target, a spender that increases their armor, a mini nuke that increases damage of their next dps spell, and an execute that builds holy power. thats just the baseline lol.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

The more dps options a healer has available to them the more it is expected until it finally required for healers in savage to focus mainly on dps while the bare minimum healing becomes required, and then the focus on healing shifts for the entire rest of the game from 1 to level cap that healers must focus on bare minimum heals while focusing MAINLY on optimizing dps until healers are no longer healers because get ready for that end-game content where it's required now or be knocked flat when you get there. They are dps with heal options.

All because of a minor shift at end game. It's exactly what has happened with WoW. It's all about maximizing all subskills. WoW has reached a point where the leveling process doesn't even matter anymore; it's how quick you get to max lv and start getting that perfect dps gear for mythic, dps gear for tanks, and healers, too. The game itself now ONLY cares about mythic raiding or mythic + and that's a sad fate for what used to be such a fun journey. One that SE is wisely avoiding.

Does savage content matter? Yes, of course, it's the hardest content with the most skill requirement and some of the best rewards. Should savage content direct the entire game? Absolutely not. What a corn-filled ball of poo that'd be. Claiming savage content is the be all and end all is idiotic baiting with so little truth that it's a corny idea barely worth acknowledging.

It's the game as a whole that should direct how healers heal, not just the very hardest content, and SE has proclaimed that healers should never feel mandated to focus on dps output. People asking what my savage stats are have it backwards. Not everyone does savage.

Healers heal and that's all that should be expected, for the sake of the game. Are there downtimes? A few. So throw what you can and buffs before added dps, and be glad there are dps options at all.

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The irony of this is that healer DPS in Savage is already important. The beginning of this post is insinuating that it’s not already something that is required to clear. In both Savage and Ultimate, you won’t clear without your healers dealing some kind of damage. The amount needed depends on the fight, but it is already 100% necessary in there. And it has been since HW (both pre- and post-Gordias and Midas).

I’ll also say this again: why is it that healers get a free pass when it comes to dealing damage? Why are they the only role allowed to stand in one place and do nothing for more than half a fight while the other two roles are expected to be constantly moving and constantly attacking? I’m sure people wouldn’t appreciate if tanks just started using their AOE once every 30 seconds to maintain aggro on a trash pack, or spammed Tomahawk/Shield Lob/Unmend/Lightning Shot on a boss to maintain enmity. Why do healers get this special treatment? They aren’t special.

I’m not expecting high performance. I am expecting participation. And, 9 times out of 10, the healers that stand and occasionally cast a Cure are also the ones who cannot keep people alive.


There’s also way more than “a few” downtimes. If you think otherwise, I’d love to know which version of FFXIV you are playing.

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Originally Posted by Acece

wow healers also have a lot more damage options.

holy paladin has melee builds holy power, a ground dot around them, a spell that can heal or dps depending on who they target, a spender that increases their armor, a mini nuke that increases damage of their next dps spell, and an execute that builds holy power. thats just the baseline lol.

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Yeah and holy Paladin and discipline priests do tank dmg and lose no power in healing for it. Almost like we play healer in final fantasy 14 now except boring as hell dmg kits.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Healers heal and that's all that should be expected, for the sake of the game. Are there downtimes? A few. So throw what you can and buffs before added dps, and be glad there are dps options at all.

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I swear to god, it's like you all get scripts from the same factory.

We have mountains of actual data showing that downtime isn't "a few" or "a little" or "do what you can". middling skilled healers cast Glare hundreds of times in the hardest content in the game. The healing role is the easiest it's ever been. "Having more complicated damage rotations forces players to feel more pressured to use them" is Yoshi's opinion, and it's demonstrably untrue. When you have enormous gaps in time between outgoing damage mechanics and your damage rotation is something you could teach an infant, there's *more* pressure to do it because it requires zero effort.

Veteran healers are more focused on optimizing damage than ever not because "lol toxic evil raiders ruin fun through optimization". There is nothing else to do. Even new and self-described casual healers have this figured out. I know people new to the game who haven't finished leveling healers who are *already* bored of them, because they're boring.

Only "hEaLErS ShOulD heAL oNLy" Sylphies and the devs refuse to see it.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

I swear to god, it's like you all get scripts from the same factory.

We have mountains of actual data showing that downtime isn't "a few" or "a little" or "do what you can". middling skilled healers cast Glare hundreds of times in the hardest content in the game. The healing role is the easiest it's ever been. "Having more complicated damage rotations forces players to feel more pressured to use them" is Yoshi's opinion, and it's demonstrably untrue. When you have enormous gaps in time between outgoing damage mechanics and your damage rotation is something you could teach an infant, there's *more* pressure to do it because it requires zero effort.

Veteran healers are more focused on optimizing damage than ever not because "lol toxic evil raiders ruin fun through optimization". There is nothing else to do. Even new and self-described casual healers have this figured out. I know people new to the game who haven't finished leveling healers who are *already* bored of them, because they're boring.

Only "hEaLErS ShOulD heAL oNLy" Sylphies and the devs refuse to see it.

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Pretty much this.

I suspect Drkdays and I don't mean it in any form to put anybody down, is probably a 'okay' healer. By that I mean, they do their job but still find it challenging. Which is fine, everybody is different, what's easy to one person isn't to the next. I base this on their reaction to me and their disbelieve that they can be this big consistent downtime.

But you present it right:
- We heal less than we ever have
- We are left to only DPS
- DPS is boring as heck on a healer now

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

It's the game as a whole that should direct how healers heal, not just the very hardest content, and SE has proclaimed that healers should never feel mandated to focus on dps output. People asking what my savage stats are have it backwards. Not everyone does savage.

Healers heal and that's all that should be expected, for the sake of the game. Are there downtimes? A few. So throw what you can and buffs before added dps, and be glad there are dps options at all.

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I am a person who barely does savage and I am finding the same problems the hardcore savage raiders are complaining about.

Whether healers should just heal, that's not accurate according to this game's design. But I think the devs want DPS to be optional (and for the most part it is, there's low chance somebody will complain until you're going for the highest levels of content).

Your "be glad there are dps options at all" imply that if we weren't 'lucky' we wouldn't have any at all. The reality is that healer DPS is in the game's core design, healers were made with the intention to be able to contribute DPS. The devs have not and are not taking away DPS what they've done is simplify it. And if anything they've made it so that we DPS more than we used to. This is the great 5.0 myth, the devs made us DPS more, not less.


But let's take your statement and apply it. We should be only healing? Well lets up that healing requirement to be engaging, keep damage persistent so healers have to keep on healing, make them make use full use of their kit available to whatever content they're doing. Healers should only heal and if healers are complaining there's not a lot to do, then let's make them heal.

What will happen? I know you'll likely find healing more challenging than you already do. And all those newbies will find it harder to approach, I mean, they would need to make these adjustments for more than just Savage as Savage is not the only content (as you say yourself) but overall healing is less accessible. And those groups with lower-end healers probably wipe more because there's less experienced healers trying to keep up. People will stop complaining about those Glare mages forgetting to heal instead they'll be complaining that their healer can't heal for crap.

Maybe we're not so selfish to ask for that? And put lower end healers through that? Especially with the devs wanting to accommodate those people. But if I take the selfish approach, let's do it, I'll be fine.

All it really needs to be is them accepting downtime is a thing, do what they can to reduce it where it matters but have something to break up the monotony of a downtime. Because maybe going into something like Anamnesis Anyder it should be accessible for a fresh level 80 healer who is catching up with story, and for a player who is getting 70% downtime should not find it more boring than what the DPS and tanks are experiencing. It's not a case of "sometimes" but "most of the time" that we get this.

I think at this point it is quite obvious that both Victoria and Drkdays are either repeating the same debunked nonsense just to piss every half-decent healer off...

Or the more concerning option, are so bad at healing, so inefficient, that they blow all their resources at the first sign of the tank's HP bar moving below 60%, just to then wonder why they have a hard time keeping their party alive for the remainder of the fight.