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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

We literally see Zenos standing over their dead bodies with blade in hand at the end of 5.2 or whatever patch it is lol.

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Those were never explicitly stated to be the Populares, who wouldn't have any reason to be occupying the royal palace even if they hadn't been mostly wiped out by the attack in the Burn.

Considering that Nerva's forces seemed to have the upper hand in the war unfolding in the capital, it's more probable they were his soldiers.

For that matter, I'm still really curious about what role he has to play in this whole mess, though considering that there are organized Garlean forces amid the tempered, he might simply be there to provide some semblance of order amid the chaos. I don't doubt he'll probably be an obstacle in 6.0 tempered or otherwise, though.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

For that matter, I'm still really curious about what role he has to play in this whole mess, though considering that there are organized Garlean forces amid the tempered, he might simply be there to provide some semblance of order amid the chaos. I don't doubt he'll probably be an obstacle in 6.0 tempered or otherwise, though.

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He could also be an ally. It depends on what route they want to go with him, and one route I could see is making him the Larsa Solidor type. The young reasonable heir to the throne who actually cares not only about the people of his own country, but of other countries as well, and is willing to do what it takes to end the unnecessary bloodshed.

Nerva has been described multiple times in story as a gutless coward and shining example of nepotism. His dad the same.

The exact opposite of Larsa and his father.

Nerva and Titus are pretty clearly set up to show the more "normal" flaws in the royal family, and whey Emet preferred his first son so much.

Yes but at the same time he was connected to the Populares, and we still have a Populares contact amongst us in the form of Maxima. I believe he could therefore perform the role of a transitional leader for the Empire - really though, with how they're writing Gabranth, he'd have made a better one, IMO. There is also the fact that lord Nerva is funded by house Brutus, which sheds some doubt on his role, but it'd be peculiar if such an alliance of convenience lasted into Garlemald's upcoming predicament. And there is of course Gaius as a spare option, who has condemned the Empire's worst aspects.

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

The more i think about it the more its true... Zenos is rather cold, maybe dislikes stuff, looks down on you... but hate, anger...? he never seemed the type for it. He murdered his father in cold blood, without even hesitating a second he slit his throat and just as cold he returned to life - heck he literally went "ehh might as well resume the hunt" lol

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Personally, I don't find it too hard to reconcile these emotions with his usual state of mind, because they're not always emotions expressed in showy displays, but who knows, some trigger may switch his behaviour to be more overt about it in 5.5. It's worth noting the JP version also says something similar from translations I've seen of it, so EN seems to be the odd one out as usual; it does tend to take a bit more poetic licence with things.

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

All this talk of Zenos's hatred and anger reminds me of Zemus/Zeromus from Final Fantasy IV. Zemus being a man consumed by his hatred of humanity to the point of trying to exterminate them, and Zeromus being an immortal Grudge-like entity born of that same hatred. In turn, this makes me wonder whose memories of the Final Days Zenos possesses.

As an aside, can I just say how much of a trip it is to imagine Zenos talking about hatred or anger? I hesitate to say it's out of character for him, but it's pretty surprising to me.

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This dialogue from 5.1 in the French version is interesting:

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[11:07] Homme à la robe blanche : Je suis un chien de chasse qui cherche un nouveau maître. Que diriez-vous de pratiquer votre sport favori en équipe ?

= “I am a hunting dog in search of a new master. What would you say to practising your favorite sport as a team?”

[11:07] Homme à la robe blanche : Notre éventuelle proie est encore endormie, mais une férocité sans pareille bout en elle depuis des millénaires…

= “Our eventual prey is still dormant/asleep, but a ferocity without such an end in it for millennia…”


[11:07] Homme à la robe blanche : Elle se nomme... Zordiarche…

= “They are named… Zodiark.”

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Because it almost sounds like he is aligning to that state of mind.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Personally, I don't find it too hard to reconcile these emotions with his usual state of mind, because they're not always emotions expressed in showy displays, but who knows, some trigger may switch his behaviour to be more overt about it in 5.5. It's worth noting the JP version also says something similar from translations I've seen of it, so EN seems to be the odd one out as usual; it does tend to take a bit more poetic licence with things.

This dialogue from 5.1 in the French version is interesting:

Because it almost sounds like he is aligning to that state of mind.

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Every time I read this stuff, my exasperation with the English localization flares up. I can't help but wonder now just how different the Japanese/French/German Zenos is to his English counterpart.

As for Nerva—as I'm fond of reminding people, he's only been mentioned twice so far, and only one of those mentions came with a take on his character. And that take, the "weak and a coward" thing, came from Lyon of all people. He'd probably call Larsa a coward, too. I don't know where this nepotism angle came from other than theorizing, unless that, too, was scrubbed out for the English text.

Gods, I need to start learning Japanese...

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

Every time I read this stuff, my exasperation with the English localization flares up. I can't help but wonder now just how different the Japanese/French/German Zenos is to his English counterpart.

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The thing is, that doesn't mean the French version is always right though. I always play the game in French, but with English voice acting (and I sometimes check YouTube videos for the English texts of specific dialogues), and I remember thinking that sometimes the English version was more explicit / understandable than the French one. A translator could feel some kind of emphasis on one element in the original text, when another translator could understand it with more nuance.
But coming here on the Lore Forums is always great to compare the translations anyway on such precise elements anyway!

Sometimes that is the case, but usually it is the French version which spells things out in greater depth (whereas the EN glosses over it through poetic language) and is more direct in its language, and which also tends to track closer to JP. I think in this scenario though they don't really clear things up much, because we could easily see what the EN version is mentioning play out, as the tangible manifestation of what he's saying in the other versions! Also reading the JP again, it almost sounds like he is exhorting someone (probably the MC.)

At the end of the day, even if Lord Nerva is an opportunistic coward it does not mean he has to remain as one.

As an aside, the expansion itself is leaning heavily on references and throwbacks to FFIV, the very same game that just so happened to have a cowardly Prince as a temporary playable character. Of course, unlike Edward, Nerva isn't a bard (to our knowledge) but FFXIV rarely does a straight copy and paste of character elements and weaves in some new elements to accompany the familiarity.

I'm inclined to think that Lord Nerva will have a role to play in the expansion. How big that role is remains to be seen...but someone is going to have to step up and rally the surviving Garleans to their side. It might be Nerva, it could be Gaius...maybe it'll be someone else. We'll see.

We'll almost certainly be allying with Garlemald against Zenos and Fandaniel, though!

I think it will be Cid with Nero and the Ironworks establishing a true Technocracy. "Freedom through Technology!" and all that.

I mean, some of you folks do want a Garlean restoration, don't you? Giving former war criminals any chance to be the leader of a civilization that has done nothing but upset any semblance of peace for the last 25+ years doesn't seem a smart play, no matter how earnestly they feel about setting wrongs right. Execution or exile are really the only options if the current Alliances are to survive a post apocalyptic scenario and rebuild a better world. We need those brave few that would fix the world to lead the survivors to rebuilding what is lost in the process. Not former tyrants and neophytes.

Besides, Cid and company already took charge of the survivors in the original timeline and due to their ability to create solutions to impossible problems are the only reason anyone can have a change of heart at such a convenient time. A good quote from a not so great show.

“You served him well. When serving was safe.”
— Eddard 'Ned' Stark, Game of Thrones Season 1: Lord Snow

Thankfully it doesn't appear as though the writing is going in such a direction as the writers themselves have made no secret of the various in-game conflicts being a matter of perspective rather than black and white morality. Garlemald is very much based off of the Roman Empire, which is pretty complex in itself - but there's no reason for the Eorzean Alliance to swoop in and start executing people just because they previously supported expansionist policies. (Something which every nation, real world or in-game has done at some point).

Though if you insist on such a route, I look forward to you shoving the likes of Aymeric, Artoriel and Edmont into a guillotine for supporting the former regime that led Ishgard. Ignorance isn't an excuse, right?

Jests aside, Cid's good at engineering but has shown very little nuance in regards to political or cultural matters. He's a defector who turned on his own people instead of working to reform things from within. That he falsely blamed Varis and Solus for shooting him rather than his father due to trauma also leads one to question his mental stability.

I think it's pretty likely that Garlemald will go in a similar direction to Ishgard. It'll undergo reform, but the Eorzean Alliance isn't going to obsessively seek to punish the Garleans. Especially since the only reason Garlemald became an Empire in the first place is due to the Garleans themselves being unable to use aether in most cases and being driven to near extinction by their neighbours.

If anything, it'll be a story about breaking the cycle and establishing Garlemald as having a seat at the table as Eorzea's equal.