Summoner Over-Nered (and A few other Problems)

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Originally Posted by Silkerin

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Add a manual Provoke skill to Titan-egi. Or just don't use Demi-Bahamut when you want something tanked. Or, oh idk, use a chocobo like any other DPS.

Adding an AoE pet would not only be a waste of resources, but it would be detrimental to the current design plan in the game of limiting regular AoE damage for all jobs. On top of that, SMN AoE is still relatively solid with Bane (800/30 seconds primary, ~445/30 seconds minimum), Painflare (200, 5 second cd), Shadowflare (250/15 seconds), Deathflare (400 primary, 200 minimum) and Akh Morn (680 primary, 340 minimum). SMN AoE may be clunky, but they still have better AoE than most jobs.

As for the Osmosis thing, sure, that could be something. Would likely feel better as a passive trait just so it's one less ability to worry about.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

Because you can't get Physik out of Arcanist.

The only way to remove Physik from SMN, but leaving it on SCH, would be to make it the first job ability of SCH (at level 30).

But what does a SCH do, when he get's unsynched to below level 30?
Just only rely on fairy (not that this is not possible)? I mean, ok, but taking a healer the ability to heal (although only low-level) as a trade-off so SMN can tank again (which might be not intended to be a big thing anymore, because we are a dps job and not a weak one).

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They don't have to take anything away from Scholar at all. All SE needs to do is at level 30 change Physick to Sustain for Summoners. If you are sync'ed below 30 then set it to Physick which is still effective at the lower levels. They already do something similar with Bio and Miasma so it isn't like they don't have experience or precedence against it.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

Add a manual Provoke skill to Titan-egi. Or just don't use Demi-Bahamut when you want something tanked. Or, oh idk, use a chocobo like any other DPS.

Adding an AoE pet would not only be a waste of resources, but it would be detrimental to the current design plan in the game of limiting regular AoE damage for all jobs.

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Have to correct you here. Every other class in the game (except Summoner) have strong Aoe Cds, then spammable Aoe moves when needed.
Ninja's have hellfrog Medium (400 Potency) Katon (250 Potency) Doton (320 or something potency) And Deathblossom as their spammable Aoe (110 Potency)

Summoner's Aoe strength is 100% Reliant on skills with no less then one minute cooldown. Blm's have Foul for their big aoe with a reasonable 30 cd Thunder 4 Flare and Fire 2 which are both freely usable at any time. Bard has Rain of Death, and Quick Nock. No class is limited in Aoe, except Summoner where all their viable Aoe comes with a detrimental amount of downtime. Bane as you mentioned is now mostly worthless. Unless a group of adds last 30 seconds its a complete waste. (Doing Ex runs, most adds lasted around 12 even in big pulls.) Deathflare and Ahk Morn are even neutered by the damage fall off from their attacks. Especially since Ahk Morn isn't actually 680 potency. Turning Titan into something useful would be a good change. Otherwise Summoner's are waiting for everything to come off cooldown before they Aoe.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

Because you can't get Physik out of Arcanist.

The only way to remove Physik from SMN, but leaving it on SCH, would be to make it the first job ability of SCH (at level 30).

But what does a SCH do, when he get's unsynched to below level 30?
Just only rely on fairy (not that this is not possible)? I mean, ok, but taking a healer the ability to heal (although only low-level) as a trade-off so SMN can tank again (which might be not intended to be a big thing anymore, because we are a dps job and not a weak one).

I mean, you want the best solo or best non-tank group or even (when a bit outgeared) the best utility at all, being able to tank significantly as a dps role? Then deal with having the lowest dps of all jobs, around MCH's current damage. Period.

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Then make it so that for SCH its Physik and for us SMN it turns into sustain..problem solved. Or make Physik heal pets more.

We cant even solo that much anymore..our tank egi does not hold aggro that much anymore and you cant use Bahamut and Titan at the same time. Not even talking about not being able to heal the pets. In the end I am not really sure how you exactly came to the conclusion with my post at all..I mean I did not even mention all of those points..

Right now we dont have good buffs for the party, we cant do a lot of solo content anymore (only possible if you have a good chocobo) and we are quite punished if we make mistakes..at the same time our place in the DPS ranking is not very good depending on the content. So what exactly do we have? A clunky Bahamut summon that not only blocks the view from a lot of people but also responds way too badly..(and lets not talk about dungeons under lvl70)

Really when I will try to get to 200 solo in PotD (when it will not kick me from the server anymore) I will do this with a redmage. You have a good heal, top DPS and gets hit quite less..even with the new potion I cant see how we summoners should survive it now.

My biggest grip right now is that I cant q up Aetherflow stacks while sitting on a trance....like wtf?? Before I could use my stacks, then pop aetherflow, switch to trance and have the whole duration of trance time for aetherflow stacks to come back off cool down. Now I have to wait until after the load has been blown to pop it....man c'mon.....

The whole Egi situation has become silly and redudant since we have been using the same one out of three for years.
Titan-Egi could tank and was nice in solo but now it's totally useless due to the summoner lack of healing capabilities and Demi-Bahamuth sending it away.
Ifrit-Egi is ok but we are still going to use Garuda-Egi 95% of the times due to superior utility and convenience.

If I may suggest something at this point I would just scrap Summon II and III and make Summon an ability which calls out an egi with generic abilities, mostly based around Garuda-Egi.
Ifrit, Titan, Carbuncles, Ramuh, Sephirot etc can just become egi glamour skins unlocked with their respective quests with SE adding more over time.

The result would be everyone getting to use their favourite Egi all the time and the class as a whole being more elegant and functioning better without redundant abilities: Summon II, Summon III and Phisick could get turned into Sustain, passive pet healing trait and anything else really to fill the missing ability slots as result.
Scholars, being linked to the arcanist frame, would instead get to keep Phisick and obtain a Fairy form change ability of sort to recoup the loss of Summon II.
Something like:
At level 4 SMN gets Sustain - SCH gets Phisick
At level 15 SMN gets a passive pet healing trait - SCH gets a Fairy form change ability
At level 30 SMN gets something else instead of Summon III (maybe something to help with Aetherflow stacks lost after a death or mistake)?

These are just raw ideas and I bet the devs could do even better however the SMN job, while not being terrible, still has some bad design choices which need some ironing.
Stormblood would have been the perfect time but alas here we are, I only hope we wont have to wait years for these fixes.

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Originally Posted by Ariomi

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That was why I said 680 potency with a 320 minimum for Akh Morn. Also other than Death Blossom, all NIN AoE attacks have some sort of cooldown (Katon and Doton 20 seconds, Hellfrog Medium ~20 seconds with Mug, a 90 second cooldown) and NIN is the only DPS job in the game right now with bigger AoE skills that aren't "neutered by the damage fall off from their attacks", so NIN isn't really a good example. As for BLM, Fire 2 is like 250 potency, Thunder 4 is whenever it feels like proccing, and Flare is ~650 as well as a cycle thing and also has "damage fall off" like most other big AoE skills.

SMN is different in that you have to learn how to cycle AoE effects. It's only "limited in AoE" if you have no clue what you're doing, like using Bane on that 12-second trash pack when Painflare, tab-target dots and oh, idk, actual resource management might make you a bit better off. Sure, it's not a perfect system, but it's nowhere near as gimped as you'd think.

All I can say I'm loving SMN so far. Could do with a tiny buff on ruin III and fester apart from that I'm pretty happy with it.

How about they just get rid of worthless bahamut egi and make it so can use ruin iv all the time like ruin II and give back sustain. If they did that I would be happy. Its pretty bad when had titan at lvl 70 solo a monster 4 lvls below him and he died. If they don't want give sustain back to smn then they should remove and healing from all classes but the 3 healers to make it fair and see how they like it.

From the live letter answers, in all fairness, you could expect full black magic classes to be fully powerful again. Because, full black magic. I do hope so, for the shake of actual variety.