Is dpsing and a healer becoming the standard norm!

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

And imo, it should be removed while in a group because the healers job is meant to heal

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I prefer not playing as healer then since DPS + Healer is my reason to main SCH.

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Originally Posted by Eul

I prefer not playing as healer then since DPS + Healer is my reason to main SCH.

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I know right. I started reading this and thought, is he talking about me, until I came to the part where healer is raging about the tank. I wouldn't, I just throw some defensive spells and top him up, and back to the Cleric Stance I go. But I'm a scholar so Idk. I think it is easiest for scholars to dps.

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

isnt that already the case ? yeah it is, look at all the people using unwanted parsers that get rid of whoever is not meeting the DPS check ? yeah is already being done.

Making sense no, but is done on a daily basis though..not sure what your point is...so yeah some stuff in here is silly beyond words...but people do silly things reglularly especially when it comes to point fingers at othrs and their abilities of playing this game. Making sense ? no but is still a reality.

Bad design is to allow cleric stance altogether in a dungeon, cleric stance only if you are soloing stuff in open world out of dungeons or groups, yes then yes I would agree. But as long as cleric stance exists we will have exchange of views between people that regards healers dpsing as THE thing to do if not they deserve a kick, making sense ? no but is done regularly...yes?

This topic has been used re-used --spoken upside down backwards and forwards...point is ...we have cleric stance and healers can use, the *should they* is totally depending on THEM and not what others want them to do..in my opinionBad design is to allow cleric stance altogether in a dungeon, cleric stance only if you are soloing stuff in open world out of dungeons or groups, yes then yes I would agree. But as long as cleric stance exists we will have exchange of views between people that regards healers dpsing as THE thing to do if not they deserve a kick, making sense ? no but is done regularly...yes?

This topic has been used re-used --spoken upside down backwards and forwards...point is ...we have cleric stance and healers can use, the *should they* is totally depending on THEM and not what others want them to do..in my opinion

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Thank you so much for articulating this. So true.

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

isnt that already the case ? yeah it is, look at all the people using unwanted parsers that get rid of whoever is not meeting the DPS check ? yeah is already being done.

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What's your solution, then? Disbanding the entire group because 1 person is vastly underperforming and the group keeps wiping because DPS checks aren't being met, or is it telling everyone else who's already carrying their weight to work harder and leave the underperformer alone? If a tank is not keeping agro and letting the boss run amok, or getting 1 shot by tank busters (something outside the healers' control), they get blamed by everyone. If a healer is constantly letting people die from forced damage, they get blamed as well, like they both should be. Tell me why it's ok to take away the only responsibility that a damage dealer has.

Now, about cleric stance, yes, the person has to be comfortable with it, but the context matters greatly. The new dungeons plainly do not require a lot of healing to be done. So when the healer just stands there doing absolutely nothing for 10+ seconds, it's nice of them to help out the group by not ignoring half their skillset. Standing there doing nothing for that long is lazy. Then there are SCH's in low level dungeons who set the tank to follow and watch TV or do something else for the whole dungeon run while not helping out. How is that OK?

Should healers be "required" to DPS? No, not exactly, but when the downtime between your heals is so big that you are just standing there with absolutely nothing to do, you SHOULD DPS, much like damage dealers in the group won't just auto-attack or use random skills because a dungeon has no DPS check and their DPS isn't "required", and any tank worth their salt won't spam their agro combo again and again while ignoring their utility combos.

The best healers are those who make the most use of their time while performing their duties in the content they're participating in. This can include but not limited to:

1. Providing additional healing because the people they're partied with are playing terribly and they require more healing attention because of this
2. Providing additional DPS to the group because the group is performing well, handling mechanics appropriately, and tanks are mitigating as necessary. Healer's have the opportunity to add value to the group by providing additional DPS.
3. Allowing MP to regenerate. There's a particularly healing intensive section coming up soon and the healer notices they're a bit short on MP. Give everything a small break to prepare for the oncoming onslaught.
4. Etc.

The best healers in this game are always trying to think 3-4 steps ahead and understanding what actions to perform when to maximize their contribution to their group. These are also the type healer's all players should strive to become.

Healer's who refuse to DPS when the opportunities present themselves are lazy. The only exception I'll give to this is if the healer is new to the content because healer's only become better as they understand the intricacies of the content they're participating in. Otherwise, yes, you're performing your baseline role and I won't begrudge you for that but you certainly won't get my commend.

Likewise, other's who are pushing healer's to DPS harder when there are no opportunities to do so because the party play is so horrible the only thing a healer can do is heal need to shut up and man up to give the healer those windows else you're just as ignorant and/or lazy as the group above this paragraph. Healer DPS is a group thing. If the party isn't performing well, then that limits how often a healer can enter Cleric Stance (if at all).

If you aren't actively attempting to become better as player and/or healer and find those opportunities that allows you to perform much better, then please stop whining and go away.

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Originally Posted by Odett

What's your solution, then? Disbanding the entire group because 1 person is vastly underperforming and the group keeps wiping because DPS checks aren't being met, or is it telling everyone else who's already carrying their weight to work harder and leave the underperformer alone? If a tank is not keeping agro and letting the boss run amok, or getting 1 shot by tank busters (something outside the healers' control), they get blamed by everyone. If a healer is constantly letting people die from forced damage, they get blamed as well, like they both should be. Tell me why it's ok to take away the only responsibility that a damage dealer has.

Now, about cleric stance, yes, the person has to be comfortable with it, but the context matters greatly. The new dungeons plainly do not require a lot of healing to be done. So when the healer just stands there doing absolutely nothing for 10+ seconds, it's nice of them to help out the group by not ignoring half their skillset. Standing there doing nothing for that long is lazy. Then there are SCH's in low level dungeons who set the tank to follow and watch TV or do something else for the whole dungeon run while not helping out. How is that OK?

Should healers be "required" to DPS? No, not exactly, but when the downtime between your heals is so big that you are just standing there with absolutely nothing to do, you SHOULD DPS, much like damage dealers in the group won't just auto-attack or use random skills because a dungeon has no DPS check and their DPS isn't "required", and any tank worth their salt won't spam their agro combo again and again while ignoring their utility combos.

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100% true
in the new dungeons and in many other dungeons, there is nothing to heal, so it's just lazy, when the healers do nothing in 90% of the time
it's unfair for the rest of the group

healer is the easiest job in this game..

My stand in this question regardless its raiding or a 4-man dungeon a healer is there first most to heal party members and Not DPS

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Originally Posted by Campi

healer is the easiest job in this game..

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Have you ever healed a raid, or EX primal while it is the newest and most challenging content?

As a NIN all you do is DPS and dodge. I'll leave it at that.

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Originally Posted by LadyVal

Have you ever healed a raid, or EX primal while it is the newest and most challenging content?

As a NIN all you do is DPS and dodge. I'll leave it at that.

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Yes I already healed a raid or EX primals
I played all 3 jobs and to play a tank or heal is much easier than playing a DPS class to its full potential while doing all mechanics :)

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Originally Posted by Campi

I played all 3 jobs and to play a tank or heal is much easier than playing a DPS class to its full potential while doing all mechanics :)

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I find it slightly amusing that in addition to you thinking this, you've listed NIN as your primary class. So despite maining NIN (according to your forum profile, at least), you still find it easier to tank or heal. That's... actually saying something, doesn't it?

Then again, I main WAR, but if I'm having an off day, or if I'm forced to go into a duty without a healer I know... I prefer to heal ^^; Much less stressful, for me. (Mainly because I'm not comfortable leading, so being forced to judge how much I can pull when I have no clue as to the healer's opinion and ability... is stressful. So much easier to just go with what a tank wants. If it's a good tank, it'll leave me time to dps. If it's a bad/overconfident tank, I'll just throw in some MiasmaII and Shadowflare and focus on healing, while Selene helps speed up the damage :p )