Black Mage Sanctuary - A Guide to DPS

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Originally Posted by Sfia

Alright, I have a question to get us back on track. Has an optimal 2 target rotation been discovered? With double faust coming I'm wanting to know if it's even worth using flare.

whoops double post

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If you have a F3P or have a TC ready for when you transpose and have Swiftcast for the Flare, it's worth it yes. Other than that, mostly just using Sharpcast on Thunder for Thundercloud procs chaining.

Actually have a question while this whole SS bug/cheat/exploit/whatever is going on...

Just got acces to both the A4S weapon and the 210 eso weapon, and I wonder...

Is it worth it in the long run, to sacrifice the 102 crit for the extra 31 spell speed (and 68 det)?

A.k.a. which weapon is better? 210 Eso or gordian staff?

I personally would prefer the gordian staff cause of the crit change in 3.0, but people are 50/50 on this subject... I'd like to hear some more opinions about this ^^

Personally I'd say Gordian is the way. Ridiculous SS aside, in this current tier I believe getting to 700~ SS and then going all crit is the best option with what is available. I believe once we can start doing even more rotational advantages with 900+ SS in 3.2 it will be SS all the way. That's just my opinion, I'm no rocket surgeon, I just like 12k crits in opener IDK.

With the difference in ss between the two being what it is, I would personally go with Gordian as well. 31 SS can make a difference but I feel the crit balances it out if not slightly surpasses it in this case. Dat Det doh..... I dunno, though, I would rather have both. lel

I'm on the other boat in saying that if you are going to prioritise spell speed, then ESO all the way. Every point of spell speed makes the next point more valuable so it's really an all or nothing stat however.

You mean full eso gear? That route i would suggest to not go, i was bellow 700 spell speed with full eso which is not very ideal, 700+ ss is the better route.
Unless you were talking about Eso weapon?

Just for my curiosity, what does 700+ skill speed do? On lunch so I can't check my character, but I think I might even be below 600. I can still pull off 6 Fire IVs in my opener with that setup. Is the higher SS just going to ease the timing on Enochian, or does it allow me to get an extra cast of a spell off? Thanks.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

Just for my curiosity, what does 700+ skill speed do? On lunch so I can't check my character, but I think I might even be below 600. I can still pull off 6 Fire IVs in my opener with that setup. Is the higher SS just going to ease the timing on Enochian, or does it allow me to get an extra cast of a spell off? Thanks.

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If you're level 60 it'd be pretty hard to be below 600 SS with any gear. I have 648 at i206, at i198 I had more SS than 600 (I don't remember what it was exactly). And 6 F4's are doable at lower SS with Ley Lines, but 6 F4's with time for a T1 before B4 might not be possible with lower SS.

It's not a magic breakpoint or anything, but it gives the rotation some leniency, however small it is. I was below 700 SS for quite a long time before I got my legs from A3S couple of weeks ago. I remember having less SS at one point at 60 than I had at 50.

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Originally Posted by Maero

You mean full eso gear? That route i would suggest to not go, i was bellow 700 spell speed with full eso which is not very ideal, 700+ ss is the better route.
Unless you were talking about Eso weapon?

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Yes, talking about the 210 eso weapon, vs the gordian weapon

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Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

If you're level 60 it'd be pretty hard to be below 600 SS with any gear. I have 648 at i206, at i198 I had more SS than 600 (I don't remember what it was exactly). And 6 F4's are doable at lower SS with Ley Lines, but 6 F4's with time for a T1 before B4 might not be possible with lower SS.

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Thanks for the clarification on that. Actually getting to look at my character now, I'm at exactly 648.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi-P

Previously, there were situations where if you queued Transpose before Flare landed, the effect would be lost and the action would not work. To avoid this situation you needed to wait for Flare to grant Astral Fire and then hit Transpose after the buff was granted. In order to solve this problem, we've changed it so that the Astral Fire/Umbral Ice buff is applied the moment casting is completed. Because of that, we needed to also adjust the overall duration of the buff simultaneously. For most people, the general feeling won't change, but for those who incorporate the so-called half-cast [[the faster cast off a III stack of Astral Fire or Umbral Ice for the opposing element]] it might change where you sandwich your abilities in the action rotation.

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Clicky

Hurray for not transposing emptiness and immediately getting back to AF3 again. Might this also mean that F4 can be queued during the GCD from UI3 F3? I'm also slightly curious about the comment on possibly having to change buff timings a little.

First week of 3.2 is gonna be horrible and full of BLMs that either use F3 too early or use two fillers and then use F3 too early, including me. It's a nice adjustment though.

Thinking further about it, I'm not so sure we'll have to T2 or delay, assuming it's still the same total time in UI mode. Hopefully the exact amount of time we lost going out of it, was gained going into it. We'll have to see if we lose an unfair amount of time due to this change.

What is gonna get a lot of BLMs though is the 10,0XX MP we're gonna have, a lot of the time. Right now there's a very common MP tick situation where we do B3 > (MP tick) > T1 > B4 > (MP tick near the start of B4) > F3 > (regular 200 MP tick from no stance), leaving us with 10,2XX MP when all's said and done for the rotation. This leaves us with a little over 800 after a F4 F4 F1 F4 F4 B3 rotation, enough to do a T1 comfortably.

In 3.2, any time that situation would have happened to us, well, that final MP tick is for sure gone, I even checked the Yoshi P video to see if this happened. It will happen such that you will only have 600~ MP if you do a full rotation, which is too poor for anything meaningful. My advice depends on how much SS we have, I guess ... if you get that weirdo MP tick, I advise any BLM to do either F1 F4 F4 F4 B3 or F4 F4 F4 F4 B3, assuming you get the fast cast of B3. If you can't get the fast cast, don't go for it even if you can get F4 X4, F1 F4 F4 F4 will beat it with a fast B3 cast.

Someone more math savvy than me can do the fact checking on that if they'd like but I can't imagine gambling on a moment where we have to B1 or sit there doing nothing is worthwhile.

Hello, everyone.

FFXIV Producer and Director Yoshida here.

First, I would like to thank those who reported and investigated this matter! However, these reports are based on unofficial data, and not from official data, so we’re carefully investigating cases such as these.

From the reports received from everyone, we were able to confirm players circumventing aspects of the game system to, among other things, deal higher than intended levels of damage. Also, we would like to assure you all that this is something we take very seriously.

We have conducted an investigation based on official logs that were accumulated within the development team, and we have already identified the cause. For security reasons I won’t delve into specifics, but there already exist several checks and balances in place for irregularities in output damage, as well as strict limitations that have been set on the system-side. However, in order to avoid players from experiencing unexpected lag, or severely lowered level of gameplay comfortability, the system allows a certain amount of room for the decision to be made. For the case at hand, we have decided to carry out a stricter measure for unjustifiably speeding-up within the boundaries that have been set.

As we are nearing the release of Patch 3.2 and the introduction of the next raid tier, the development team has already implemented a stricter log observation, as well as a stricter automated detection for any data irregularities on the server-side.

I would like to mention that should we find tools which unjustifiably control the client process speed, or tools which modify the packets, we will not hesitate to carry out punishment such as banning the offending players.

We thank you all for sharing this information with us!
Please continue to enjoy FINAL FANTASY XIV!

And, of course, please look forward to Patch 3.2. :P


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皆さんこんにちは、FFXIVプロデューサー兼ディレクターの吉田です。

まずは本件、ご報告や検証をありがとうございます！
ただし、こちらは公式のデータではなく、非公式のデータに基づいたご報告ですので、
慎重に調査を進めています。

皆さんからのご報告により、我々としても通常のゲームクライアントの仕組みとは別の方法で、
高いダメージを出している形跡があることを確認しました。
また、これに対して強固な姿勢で対応を進めていくことをお知らせいたします。

今回、改めて開発チーム内に蓄積されている公式ログを元に調査を進め、既に要因を特定しました。
詳細はセキュリティの観点から伏せさせていただきますが、現状でも既に出力ダメージに異変がある場合、
それを特定する仕組みや、システム側の制限が厳格に設定されています。
しかし、これはプレイヤーの皆さんが不意のラグなどによって、プレイの快適性が著しく低下しないように、
ある程度判定猶予を持たせる仕組みとなっています。
今回はその「判定内での不正最速化」という部分について、さらに強固な対策を施すことにしました。

パッチ3.2の実装が近く、新たなレイドが公開されることもあり、開発チームではログの更なる強化監視、
より強固なデータ異変の自動検出などを既にサーバー側に実装済みです。

不正にクライアント処理速度を操作するツールや、パケットの改変ツールなどの使用が確認された場合、
容赦なく対象を処罰、BANなどの対応を行うことを、改めて明言させていただきます。

皆さんからの情報提供に感謝いたします！
引き続き、ファイナルファンタジーXIVをお楽しみください！

もちろん、パッチ3.2もお楽しみに :P

You know it's serious when Yoshi P responds. GG. Glad it's dealt with.

"were able to confirm players...."

So they found more than just that blm eh?

thanks for the fast investigation and punish these dirty cheaters hard *thumbs up*

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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

You know it's serious when Yoshi P responds. GG. Glad it's dealt with.

"were able to confirm players...."

So they found more than just that blm eh?

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Considering this "explot" was around since launch, then yes, there has been more than 1 player doing this.

Thanks Yoshida and the Dev team! Im glad you' solving this before 3.2

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

the development team has already implemented a stricter log observation, as well as a stricter automated detection for any data irregularities on the server-side.

I would like to mention that should we find tools which unjustifiably control the client process speed, or tools which modify the packets, we will not hesitate to carry out punishment such as banning the offending players.

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So in short you cracking down on dps meters now. Wow, I guess its no longer fight club secret.

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

So in short you cracking down on dps meters now. Wow, I guess its no longer fight club secret.

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That is not what was said at all. Read it again, more carefully this time or get someone to explain it to you.

F1 F4 F4 F4 is a worse rotation than F4 F4 F1 F4 F4, I've tested it and posted some basic math a few pages earlier.

About the time in UI3: You're not completely right, you have to consider that the fast B3 cast is faster than the GCD, which means that the time in UI3 is the same, but the timespan we can act is smaller.

So now that mch got a passive that turns casters into salt mines and the huge overcharge buff,how bad is it looking

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

So in short you cracking down on dps meters now. Wow, I guess its no longer fight club secret.

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No, there were people that were really cheating, I.e speeding up their cast times via third party. This was exposed by parsing actually. So ya... parsing is good.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Hello, everyone.

FFXIV Producer and Director Yoshida here.

First, I would like to thank those who reported and investigated this matter! However, these reports are based on unofficial data, and not from official data, so we’re carefully investigating cases such as these.

From the reports received from everyone, we were able to confirm players circumventing aspects of the game system to, among other things, deal higher than intended levels of damage. Also, we would like to assure you all that this is something we take very seriously.

We have conducted an investigation based on official logs that were accumulated within the development team, and we have already identified the cause. For security reasons I won’t delve into specifics, but there already exist several checks and balances in place for irregularities in output damage, as well as strict limitations that have been set on the system-side. However, in order to avoid players from experiencing unexpected lag, or severely lowered level of gameplay comfortability, the system allows a certain amount of room for the decision to be made. For the case at hand, we have decided to carry out a stricter measure for unjustifiably speeding-up within the boundaries that have been set.

As we are nearing the release of Patch 3.2 and the introduction of the next raid tier, the development team has already implemented a stricter log observation, as well as a stricter automated detection for any data irregularities on the server-side.

I would like to mention that should we find tools which unjustifiably control the client process speed, or tools which modify the packets, we will not hesitate to carry out punishment such as banning the offending players.

We thank you all for sharing this information with us!
Please continue to enjoy FINAL FANTASY XIV!

And, of course, please look forward to Patch 3.2. :P

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Thank you for looking into this, although its concerning that the player in question from the Unofficial Data (with Video Proof) is still able to login ingame (Today). Its disheartening as a raider to put the effort into raiding while someone can just cheat and get away with it.

I'm a little disappointed that the offending parties have suffered zero consequences as a result of cheating the entire time. In WoW when things like this happen, achievements and titles are striped at the least, bans happen at the most. What sort of example does it set if you are letting known cheaters get off scot-free. With the data and video proof gathered both official and unofficially I'm almost certain you've got enough proof to take action and make an example of these players.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Hello, everyone.

FFXIV Producer and Director Yoshida here.

First, I would like to thank those who reported and investigated this matter! However, these reports are based on unofficial data, and not from official data, so we’re carefully investigating cases such as these.

From the reports received from everyone, we were able to confirm players circumventing aspects of the game system to, among other things, deal higher than intended levels of damage. Also, we would like to assure you all that this is something we take very seriously.

We have conducted an investigation based on official logs that were accumulated within the development team, and we have already identified the cause. For security reasons I won’t delve into specifics, but there already exist several checks and balances in place for irregularities in output damage, as well as strict limitations that have been set on the system-side. However, in order to avoid players from experiencing unexpected lag, or severely lowered level of gameplay comfortability, the system allows a certain amount of room for the decision to be made. For the case at hand, we have decided to carry out a stricter measure for unjustifiably speeding-up within the boundaries that have been set.

As we are nearing the release of Patch 3.2 and the introduction of the next raid tier, the development team has already implemented a stricter log observation, as well as a stricter automated detection for any data irregularities on the server-side.

I would like to mention that should we find tools which unjustifiably control the client process speed, or tools which modify the packets, we will not hesitate to carry out punishment such as banning the offending players.

We thank you all for sharing this information with us!
Please continue to enjoy FINAL FANTASY XIV!

And, of course, please look forward to Patch 3.2. :P

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As a raider point of view, thanks you for taking a look into this.

This is extremely disappointing but unfortunately not surprising players resort to these exploits and cheats to gain an advantage.

I no longer play this game seriously, I'm gonna do the storyline and that's about it but I completely understand the frustration of all the players that polish their rotation to get beaten by a literal 0 skill scrub. This should have an equivalent punishment as doping in sports. That's my personal opinion. I don't think banning should be an option. It should be a standard.

Personally Harold told me Yoshi-P had reply to my BLM post so I felt obligated to see what was going on lol. I just felt I should add my point of view. Every opinion should count.

Good luck to all the BLMs and raiders for 3.2 :)

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Originally Posted by Hontaro

F1 F4 F4 F4 is a worse rotation than F4 F4 F1 F4 F4, I've tested it and posted some basic math a few pages earlier.

About the time in UI3: You're not completely right, you have to consider that the fast B3 cast is faster than the GCD, which means that the time in UI3 is the same, but the timespan we can act is smaller.

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Even with the faster cast, with UI now an extra 2 seconds you have now gained 0.5 seconds of UI/AF if GCD stays the same.
And I'm not convinced that you have to wait for the extra 1.5 seconds when you cast B3 under AF3. I've been trying to see if there's a slowdown in my casting, because you only queue up 0.5 seconds before GCD is up. Yet I can always cast T1 or B3 immediately after the sped up B3 (I can queue it before the spell ends and then I start casting once the animations is over...).

I'm 90% confident that AF3 and UI3 speed up both the cast and GCD of the respective spell. But even if it doesn't, you've still gained 0.5 seconds of AF/UI. (2.5 seconds GCD-1 second cast time=1.5 seconds GCD after UI/AF 12seconds UI/Af-1.5 seconds=10.5 seconds AF/UI-old 10 seconds AF/UI=0.5 bonus seconds.

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

Thank you for looking into this, although its concerning that the player in question from the Unofficial Data (with Video Proof) is still able to login ingame (Today). Its disheartening as a raider to put the effort into raiding while someone can just cheat and get away with it.

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Wait nothing happened to the speedhacker? wtf?

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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

Wait nothing happened to the speedhacker? wtf?

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There was no explicit mention of punishment, but there was no explicit mention of no punishment.
The closest is "I would like to mention that should we find tools which unjustifiably control the client process speed, or tools which modify the packets, we will not hesitate to carry out punishment such as banning the offending players. "

Which sounds like since they found a problem, they punished.

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Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

There was no explicit mention of punishment, but there was no explicit mention of no punishment.
The closest is "I would like to mention that should we find tools which unjustifiably control the client process speed, or tools which modify the packets, we will not hesitate to carry out punishment such as banning the offending players. "

Which sounds like since they found a problem, they punished.

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I know what the response from yoshi p said. I'm talking about the response from the quote in my post, " ....is still able to login ingame (Today)...."

If they can still log in, then nothing of significance happened for cheating.

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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

I know what the response from yoshi p said. I'm talking about the response from the quote in my post, " ....is still able to login ingame (Today)...."

If they can still log in, then nothing of significance happened for cheating.

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Usually they do it in a batch Monday night. I can't remember the name so I can't see anymore ;_;

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Originally Posted by Xisin

No, there were people that were really cheating, I.e speeding up their cast times via third party. This was exposed by parsing actually. So ya... parsing is good.

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Thats good, I got scared when I saw that last part cause that's what parsing does I think.

So how's it looking for that ice - F3 - F4x4 - B3 rotation if you had enough SS to get discounted B3?

Random comment; I missed at 540 accuracy in A4S >.>. Something weird happened to my buff, made me go wtf, looked up at parser "Miss : 1". I sighed a sigh of sadness. Thought it was 540 from the reddit post under "Useful Information." Oh well though.

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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

Random comment; I missed at 540 accuracy in A4S >.>. Something weird happened to my buff, made me go wtf, looked up at parser "Miss : 1". I sighed a sigh of sadness. Thought it was 540 from the reddit post under "Useful Information." Oh well though.

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Sure that wasn't melee miss and just a late F1 or whatever you were doing? Never missed anything but autos with 546 acc.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

Sure that wasn't melee miss and just a late F1 or whatever you were doing? Never missed anything but autos with 546 acc.

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Yes I'm sure. The miss was right next to my name not any of the melee. I haven't missed above 540, but at 540 I missed 1.

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Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

There was no explicit mention of punishment, but there was no explicit mention of no punishment.
The closest is "I would like to mention that should we find tools which unjustifiably control the client process speed, or tools which modify the packets, we will not hesitate to carry out punishment such as banning the offending players. "

Which sounds like since they found a problem, they punished.

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The guy has logged in since the announcement.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

So how's it looking for that ice - F3 - F4x4 - B3 rotation if you had enough SS to get discounted B3?

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You don't need a discounted B3 actually. You only have to get to the B3's cast and make it quick cast, and you're fine, you'll have enough MP to do any spell in the game after the B3.

Regardless I did some math a while back and the rotation PPS (assuming you can't/don't want to do F1 F4 X4) it goes F4 X4 with fast B3 > F1 F4 F4 F4 with of course fast B3 > F4 X4 with slow B3.

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Originally Posted by Hontaro

F1 F4 F4 F4 is a worse rotation than F4 F4 F1 F4 F4, I've tested it and posted some basic math a few pages earlier.

About the time in UI3: You're not completely right, you have to consider that the fast B3 cast is faster than the GCD, which means that the time in UI3 is the same, but the timespan we can act is smaller.

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Oh I'm not arguing if F1 F4 F4 F4 is better than F4 F4 F1 F4 F4. I am arguing that in a situation where you will end up with 600 MP after B3 you should use a different rotation for that, and trust me that's gonna be pretty dang constant.

Would it then be better to just F3 F4x3 instead, ie. leaving the F1 out?