Please reconsider 7.0 BLM changes

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

I won't be mad if non std makes a return, but I don't think it is good for the job to have the intended gameplay loop be incapable of handling certain situations and being excused with, "play non standard". I also understand not all non std required a tick timer, but encouraging in any way third party to play to peak potential on a job is terrible and should stay gone.

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I really think a lot of people really don't get non-standard. It's just adjusting the standard rotation to fit a fight better, things like not using ice 4 because you know the boss will stop being targetable soon so there's no point in having 3 UH and it's better to just replace it with an extra fire 4.
The whole mana tick things is not a non-standard thing it's a speed runner/parser thing.
I'm pretty sure most standard rotation players have unintentionally done their own non-standard plays by just changing the rotation to fit a fight better, every time you use a firestarter fire 3 for movement you did a non-standard action.

I just dont know how they think that removing UI paradox is a good idea.

Fine, you remove manatick its a janky stuff. I get it
Non-standard get killed, it sucks but sure its not how the dev intent for it to play, no matter how strange that sounds.

Who ask for UI paradox removal?

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

I really think a lot of people really don't get non-standard. It's just adjusting the standard rotation to fit a fight better, things like not using ice 4 because you know the boss will stop being targetable soon so there's no point in having 3 UH and it's better to just replace it with an extra fire 4.
The whole mana tick things is not a non-standard thing it's a speed runner/parser thing.
I'm pretty sure most standard rotation players have unintentionally done their own non-standard plays by just changing the rotation to fit a fight better, every time you use a firestarter fire 3 for movement you did a non-standard action.

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The problem with nonstandard is it's an abuse of class design. And remember, there's nonstandard from a boss jumping and you want to do as much damage as you can (which every class does,) and nonstandard where even normal play is nonstandard, which is exactly what BLM does. Nonstandard didn't exist in SB except for boss optimizations and was barely a whisper for most of ShB. Then EW came in and nonstandard became mandatory. Classes that can't handle content get adjustments, but classes that are 'fine' don't get adjustments. Nonstandard isn't quite 11 wyrmwaves or HW SMN levels of nonsense, but at the end of the day it's bad for a class to be played in a way other than how it was intended, especially when this method causes other people who don't know about nonstandard to suffer.

Which is exactly what happened. How many people have said you can't do TOP without nonstandard? How many recommend it for DSR for later phases especially? How can devs make adjustments the class needs when they see the playerbase handling the issue to the point where they can't even tell the core class has serious issues?

Hell, I can guarantee that manafont is failing the sniff test. It is going to require immediate adjustments for lack of overcap protection and its strict location of use. If nonstandard exists and finds a way to mask this issue, it will never get fixed. Likewise, why should monk and summoner not be allowed nonstandard, but BLM should?

What's worse is, if anyone truly stopped for half a second and looked at the class, I mean truly analyzed every single ability, the class is an absolute mess of design based around the oldest class mechanic still left in the game and the original structure it had in ARR, and everything else is slaved to it. Even nonstandard is. This wouldn't even be a problem if the devs seriously modernized the class, which they're still not doing despite fixing the tic issue.

I fully expect BLM to be in a worse state going into DT, but not because nonstandard is being removed. Because the game has moved on without BLM, but the devs are oblivious to just how far removed it is. I've commented that LL is probably going to become 15 yalms or so like pict's 'ley lines' specifically because the devs aren't designing the game out of any one class, and BLM will still require special attention, meaning even a mere one replace isn't going to be good enough.

But hopefully at the end of the road, the class will be fixed and brought to a better place because the devs finally deal with its core design problems that are as old as the relaunch of the game. And then maybe, the class will be more than just a glorified fire wizard that lightly dabbles in thunder and ice. Because I'd like more of the other elements as well, but they can barely exist within the tyranny of the timers.

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Originally Posted by Evenescence

I just dont know how they think that removing UI paradox is a good idea.

Fine, you remove manatick its a janky stuff. I get it
Non-standard get killed, it sucks but sure its not how the dev intent for it to play, no matter how strange that sounds.

Who ask for UI paradox removal?

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I'm guessing it was removed because of nonstandard. It's the only reason I'd even consider removing it. They wanted to force players to cast blizzard spells, and removing paradox was their solution. And between that and thunderscathe, the class has some emergency movement. But damn thunderscathe is hot garbage as a movement tool when it clips a lot.

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Originally Posted by Evenescence

I just dont know how they think that removing UI paradox is a good idea.

Fine, you remove manatick its a janky stuff. I get it
Non-standard get killed, it sucks but sure its not how the dev intent for it to play, no matter how strange that sounds.

Who ask for UI paradox removal?

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I simply would say, that Paradox in ice phase became meaningless.
Ice phase is now very short. Except of some dmg would it has no use anymore (until now did whe needed some moves for the ice phase, to cover the waiting time).
The dmg it would have maked, is probably covered by the fire spells.

And than could it maybe be a coding reason. Paradox has now a lot of effects. Maybe, there was a Limit, what the coding allowed (have no knowledge about that, why i would tought, that reason 1 is more likely).

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Originally Posted by Taranok

The problem with nonstandard is it's an abuse of class design. And remember, there's nonstandard from a boss jumping and you want to do as much damage as you can (which every class does,) and nonstandard where even normal play is nonstandard, which is exactly what BLM does. Nonstandard didn't exist in SB except for boss optimizations and was barely a whisper for most of ShB. Then EW came in and nonstandard became mandatory. Classes that can't handle content get adjustments, but classes that are 'fine' don't get adjustments. Nonstandard isn't quite 11 wyrmwaves or HW SMN levels of nonsense, but at the end of the day it's bad for a class to be played in a way other than how it was intended, especially when this method causes other people who don't know about nonstandard to suffer.

Which is exactly what happened. How many people have said you can't do TOP without nonstandard? How many recommend it for DSR for later phases especially? How can devs make adjustments the class needs when they see the playerbase handling the issue to the point where they can't even tell the core class has serious issues?

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Non-standard existed as long as Black Mage existed. Even in StB there were lines where you skipped Blizzard IV and opted for shorter Fire lines on occasion, especially pre-Blizzard IV buff. ShB with instantcast xenoglossy and Despair also had Blizzard IV skip for the 3-4 Fire iV -> Despair lines. The goal is the same as standard - maximizing Fire IVs, but in a more compact window. Endwalker simply expanded on it with Paradox - essentially a beefed up Blizzard I in Umbral Ice and a juicier Firestarter enabler in Astral Fire. If anything, current Black Mage, minus perhaps MP regeneration (debatable on who you ask), is currently the most well designed version for both the average person wanting to learn the job and wanting to optimize it.

However, as I need to repeat along with the others for the xth time because players including yourself seem to not understand this - it's called non-standard for a reason. If non-standard was actually mandatory, it would be called STANDARD. The fact it is called non-standard should heavily imply that it is an OPTION, not a must and the difference between standard and non-standard is miniscule and basically just a point of optimisation and, as others pointed out, aligning things better in specific phases and cooldowns, not just in ultimates mind you.

Calling the shortening of Fire lines to align cooldowns and aspect shifts better to the flow of a fight an abuse of class design is just incredibly short-sighted; the fact that Black Mage is so free flowing and allows for this is what makes it a BETTER designed job rather than being the 11th dps with a strict rotational gameplan with minimal deviation. Players should be rewarded for creativity in using their kit, not be punished and have their options ripped out for doing something else.

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Originally Posted by Keichi

I simply would say, that Paradox in ice phase became meaningless.
Ice phase is now very short. Except of some dmg would it has no use anymore (until now did whe needed some moves for the ice phase, to cover the waiting time).
The dmg it would have maked, is probably covered by the fire spells.

And than could it maybe be a coding reason. Paradox has now a lot of effects. Maybe, there was a Limit, what the coding allowed (have no knowledge about that, why i would tought, that reason 1 is more likely).

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UI Paradox would still be a strong movement tool, damage button for Ice phase and a decent weave window without having to opt for overwriting Thunder early or using stacks of Polyglot. I absolutely expect the return of it within the 7.X patch cycle because the removal of it really wont sit right with many seasoned Black Mages and makes zero sense from class fantasy either (given the dual element aesthetic).

As for the coding limit - I can assure you this wont be the reason. If anything, making Firestarter guaranteed removed a random-proc function and shortened it. The instantcast in AF is just cut & paste from UI Paradox and could also just be made baseline by changing the cast time. As for the condition of obtaining it, it is actually a shorter switch case or if-else statement than checking for 3 Umbral Hearts on top of Umbral Ice III.

There is not even such thing as "non-standard rotation", cause it is not a fixed rotation or sequence of skills. It's a usage of your tools tailored to the needs of specific encounters, so it differs from fight to fight. If anything, non-standard is a means to an end, allowing you to bypass obstacles in encounters that impede BLM performance and were not thought through by devs (looking at you, P7S). And now all the Non-standard movement is gone, optimization is gone, and other movement options are limited. Feels like we are back into being unmovable Fire 4 turret, that gets broken by any downtime. Maybe this in devs eye will actually balance out BLM to the level of other casters, with all that damage we will miss from fumbled Flare Stars.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

Classes that can't handle content get adjustments, but classes that are 'fine' don't get adjustments. Nonstandard isn't quite 11 wyrmwaves or HW SMN levels of nonsense, but at the end of the day it's bad for a class to be played in a way other than how it was intended, especially when this method causes other people who don't know about nonstandard to suffer.

Which is exactly what happened.

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Excuse me, what? The content that cannot be completed using the standard rotation is not a surprise to BLM players nor is it bad game design as long as BLM has rotational flexibility. The fact you cannot use the standard rotation is immediately obvious, and there are a number of ways to resolve it. Some are more obvious than others, but the parts where nonstandard play is mandatory will still not permit you to use the standard rotation even after these changes. It's simply methods to maintain uptime and continue using strong spells rather than weak spells, and most of the extra finicky nonstandard rotations are excruciatingly punishing if you flub any of it while being a rounding error of a dps gain vs playing slightly more conservatively.

I just realized how awful the MP regen system from 7.0 is - bro you can't even Scathe during Umbral Ice a single time anymore without running into MP issues for AF phase unless you Blizzard I/IV or Umbral Soul. With current system I can at least go UI and Scathe on the run if I absolutely have to, but with the new system I wont regen that anymore in time. Unironic Scathe nerf.

It's niche, but there goes another avenue of rotational flexibility. jfc.