Yoshida gives update on the benchmark/character creator

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Originally Posted by AirisRay

We ask the developers to bring back what absolutely everyone liked. And you ask us to shut up and like what you like. That's the whole difference between us.

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There is a great deal of difference between liking something and accepting something. If the current appearance was so widely liked, there wouldn't have been such a call as there has been in the past for the improved graphics. The main reason for recent disputes is conflicting views on how much of a difference between the current and the updated models is deemed 'acceptable', with a few seeming to want to compromise very little on that front.

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Originally Posted by AirisRay

Why should I even read a hysterical message here from a man whose wife took a vacation and will lose it, if the release is delayed? Which I never asked for, by the way.

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No, you didn't ask for it. But, purely because you didn't ask for it, it doesn't mean they aren't allowed to post it. It's an issue which affects them: they took leave to be able to play DT and now fear that the release will be delayed and will no-longer coincide with that leave, so they want to share this concern and their wishes that the planned date remains part of feedback.


Personally, I think it's good that they're updating the benchmark, rather than a simple announcement that they're making adjustments and then leaving it until the release before letting players see these new adjustments. All we can really do for now is wait and see.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

I mean, I think people want to be validated by others in what they're thinking, rather than just simply supply feedback to the devs. Some are so fragile with their thoughts that if someone disagrees it sends them into hostility because *they* want to be correct. *They* want to validated and "important".

The same can be said on both sides though. People who come into threads disagreeing and starting off hostile feel like their perspective is being threatened as well, rather than coming in simply to debate an alternate point of view.

Some people just need to learn to not have their opinions be invalidated just because a random person disagrees with them and spin out into a toddler temper tantrum as a result lol. That's really it.

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Everyone wanted to hear the opinion of one single person. Naoki Yoshida.
I'm very grateful that he responded to all those who were upset. I have a little hope for corrections.
That's all I came here for.

Nobody wanted to be validated by others.
People received hostile or devaluing opinions and reacted to them in the same way. And this is normal healthy human behavior. No one should be calm or grateful for hostility or devaluation.
It would be better, of course, to initially ignore these messages and not respond to them. But when I proposed this particular option, I was accused of calling for ignoring people’s opinions :)
Moderators should deal with this.

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Originally Posted by Scintilla

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I didn't read what you wrote, but I see that you are again responding to me. I'm answering you for the last time just to let you know once again: I'm not interested in your opinion. You are the person who, in three large posts, tried to convince everyone that I was cheating with images taken under directional lighting. Even though I mentioned exactly this type of lighting in every message I wrote.

You are the person who took my quotes and quotes from other people out of context and tried to distort them. Fortunately, the moderators found your behavior unacceptable and deleted your post. Also, the moderators in that thread deleted many rude posts (including one of mine, in which I responded to someone else’s rudeness towards me), for which I'm also grateful to them.
You are obviously stalking me on this forum. These are your problems, not mine. I can advise you to deal with these problems, but I won’t. Because honestly, I don't care about you at all.

I’ll repeat it again, maybe it will get to you. I don't read what you write. I don't care about you. All your efforts to be noticed by me will not lead to any positive result.
Bye.

Needless to say, although I quoted you, my initial point was not made towards you directly but as a general comment towards the wider discussion (unfortunately, it just happened to be your post which touched upon the point first):

Ultimately, whilst players have accepted current graphics up to this point, it does not mean they like it and would want it to remain if other options are available. Up until now, there hasn't been another option available, so it's been tolerated. Now there's been an overhaul which has included the characters themselves, it always was inevitable that there would be conflicting opinions. And, sadly, it sounds like there isn't a straightforward 'make it optional' fix available for technical reasons.

The only option would surely be to give more customization options, in the hope that, even if things aren't 100% identical, everyone can find something close which they are happy to work with

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Originally Posted by AirisRay

I didn't read what you wrote, but I see that you are again responding to me. I'm answering you for the last time just to let you know once again: I'm not interested in your opinion. You are the person who, in three large posts, tried to convince everyone that I was cheating with images taken under directional lighting. Even though I mentioned exactly this type of lighting in every message I wrote.

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My point was simply that the issue was 'lighting' with it being visible in all Miqote characters under that specific lighting, despite claims that it was structural. That said, I very much hope that the lighting adjustments in the new benchmark will resolve that issue for you. I will remain polite, even if that same courtesy is not returned to me.

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Originally Posted by AirisRay

I’ll repeat it again, maybe it will get to you. I don't read what you write. I don't care about you. All your efforts to be noticed by me will not lead to any positive result.
Bye.

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If you feel so strongly, surely there is a forum blacklist option? In that case you would not need to see my posts.

Also, I am gonna be real. To all those “touch grass” recommendations. Do you realise how upsetting touching grass is at the moment? High quality grass is a constant reminder why we have this situation. Hugging trees is a superior option.

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Originally Posted by SongOfTheWind

Also, I am gonna be real. To all those “touch grass” recommendations. Do you realise how upsetting touching grass is at the moment? High quality grass is a constant reminder why we have this situation. Hugging trees is a superior option.

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The trees look better too! I suggest "drink chamomile tea" option.

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Originally Posted by SongOfTheWind

Also, I am gonna be real. To all those “touch grass” recommendations. Do you realise how upsetting touching grass is at the moment? High quality grass is a constant reminder why we have this situation. Hugging trees is a superior option.

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worse even, in 7.0 the grass will run move away from you

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Originally Posted by Scintilla

If the current appearance was so widely liked, there wouldn't have been such a call as there has been in the past for the improved graphics.

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This is a pretty big logical leap. The call for improved graphics is mainly because you can see individual pixels in the hairstyles and ground textures without trying very hard. (And because some things would be weirdly high rez like the qitana ravel weapons, adding further disparity.) It does not stem from a dislike of the art style or overall design, and has never been a request to drastically change the appearance of anything.

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Originally Posted by Katsuragi_

worse even, in 7.0 the grass will run move away from you

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How will I continue to main botanist?! The plight..

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

This is a pretty big logical leap. The call for improved graphics is mainly because you can see individual pixels in the hairstyles and ground textures without trying very hard. (And because some things would be weirdly high rez like the qitana ravel weapons, adding further disparity.) It does not stem from a dislike of the art style or overall design, and has never been a request to drastically change the appearance of anything.

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I would definitely agree that that does form a major part of the push for improved graphics. Just looking at some of the images posted in a recent thread shows the extent of current limitations, with the crystal exarch being the first to spring to mind. Aside from lighting adjustments and perhaps hands/feet, updating characters' appearances didn't carry the same weight for many as the environmental changes. That said, it still doesn't mean that such updates would be deemed unnecessary or unneeded purely because they weren't as high of a priority. I can't help but think that if we were to revert the characters to how they were while leaving the environment, lighting, and equipment with the new adjustments, what once would have appeared okay would look much more jarring and out-of-place now.

However, why they changed such features as Moon-Keeper fangs etc., I don't know. Aside from doing it to try to push realism (which has been received badly across most of the communities from what I hear), I can't think of any other reason for which they would consciously elect to do it, particularly after saying they would try to keep characters as close to their current appearance as possible. Unless it was an outcome of the adjustments, but for as many posts that I've seen suggesting the slight feature changes are unavoidable for technical reasons, I've seen an equal number saying that not to be the case.

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Originally Posted by Scintilla

However, why they changed such features as Moon-Keeper fangs etc., I don't know. Aside from doing it to try to push realism (which has been received badly across most of the communities from what I hear), I can't think of any other reason for which they would consciously elect to do it, particularly after saying they would try to keep characters as close to their current appearance as possible. Unless it was an outcome of the adjustments, but for as many posts that I've seen suggesting the slight feature changes are unavoidable for technical reasons, I've seen an equal number saying that not to be the case.

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The face/mouth sculpt issue is likely tied to:

1) Faces apparently having over 50 new bones now, which are going to introduce some rigging issues (I'm thinking mouth/facial expression bugs fall into this category).

2) The new facial animation workflow that involves having a standard head mesh and then morphing it into each different head to cut down on animation time. I think this is probably the reason for the keeper fang nerf because it's easier to do something like this when there are fewer differences, and Suncats don't have fangs. It's also probably responsible for the general homogenization of unique facial features (mouths either getting narrower, fuller, sudden appearance/removal of dimples, slimmer/rounder cheeks, etc).

The changes caused by #2 are among the biggest issues currently being vocalized by the playerbase and I think the feedback they've received will make them more likely to reincorporate those differences as much as they're able. Which, as a Face 2 Fem Au Ra player I'm really really hoping for (their unique mouth shape now looks way more like Face 1). Fingers crossed that keeper fangs make a return.

I'm also just generally worried about the quality of facial animations under the new system if it's this buggy only two months before release. Are we going to have Mass Effect Andromeda levels of "oh god what is my character's face doing???" with the new standardization? Already not a big fan of the creepy smile in the Dawntrail Benchmark, or the persistent duckface some characters seem to be getting.