Dungeons are becoming style over substance.

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Originally Posted by Velnora

It's interesting how your metric for dungeon quality, is how quickly I can speed down the hallway and round up all mobs to aoe.

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It's interesting how your metric for dungeon quality is walking from one end of Limsa Lominsa to the other without using an aetheryte.

Twelve forbid I like to be challenged on my tank or healer, or that I like to use dungeons as a test of my DPS rotations.

It's subjective. The developers have chosen to focus on set pieces and visual effects. The simple design makes the dungeons accessible and makes systems like Trusts realistic.

I am fine with it. Puzzle mechanics don't work well in MMOs in my opinion. We repeat the content too often and there is little tolerance for new players to figure it out while a vet is just trying to get through a roulette.

I do hope that add a hard mode of some sort, and it sounds like they will. But basic dungeons should be streamlined given the diversity of the player base.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

We got Eureka in SB which was 4 zones as opposed to 2 without having to get rid of expert dungeons or deep dungeon.

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If that is your compelling argument for Eureka -> Bozja then I'm appalled.. Eureka and Bozja are not even remotely comparable on the basis of more zones therefore means more content.

Whilst we got more zones with Eureka, they hardly succeeded in innovating whatsoever until Pyros. Even then, Eureka just included Baldesion Arsenal and some bunny FATEs. Outside of BA you're just doing FATEs on steroids. Comparatively Bozja had Critical Engagements, each which are easily equivalent to a dungeon boss, if not slightly more. On top of that you have the 1v1 challenges for succeeding to not get hit by mechanics within the Critical Engagements. Further to this you have Dalriada, and Castrum Lacus Litore. In addition to both Delubrum Reginae and Delubrum Reginae (Savage)

I'm sorry but to be frank we got far more from Bozja than what we had with Eureka, and arguably just as much to reasonably say those resources from the lost dungeons have been focussed elsewhere in the game. That is if you can look simply beyond the scope of a couple of dungeons.

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Originally Posted by sincity1976

It's subjective. The developers have chosen to focus on set pieces and visual effects. The simple design makes the dungeons accessible and makes systems like Trusts realistic.

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Squadron, a more complex system than the joke that Trusts are, works in most ARR dungeons, which do not share the crappy design of ShB dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

If that is your compelling argument for Eureka -> Bozja then I'm appalled.. Eureka and Bozja are not even remotely comparable on the basis of more zones therefore means more content.

Whilst we got more zones with Eureka, they hardly succeeded in innovating whatsoever until Pyros. Even then, Eureka just included Baldesion Arsenal and some bunny FATEs. Outside of BA you're just doing FATEs on steroids. Comparatively Bozja had Critical Engagements, each which are easily equivalent to a dungeon boss, if not slightly more. On top of that you have the 1v1 challenges for succeeding to not get hit by mechanics within the Critical Engagements. Further to this you have Dalriada, and Castrum Lacus Litore. In addition to both Delubrum Reginae and Delubrum Reginae (Savage)

I'm sorry but to be frank we got far more from Bozja than what we had with Eureka, and arguably just as much to reasonably say those resources from the lost dungeons have been focussed elsewhere in the game. That is if you can look simply beyond the scope of a couple of dungeons.

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You seem to be forgetting that each eureka zone also gave us exclusive glams and mounts, more than bozja did at the very least. Critical engagements equivalent to a dungeon boss? Most of them melt pretty easily lol. Not to mention you have bosses like cassie,pazuzu,louhi etc that fit the role of a far more difficult dungeon boss than most of the bozjan ones do. Also yes, 4 zones is a great feat, especially when you look at the ugly mess that bozja and zadnor are. Bozja is quite literally also fates on steroids, except even worse because it’s the only way to upgrade the relic inside bozja as opposed to eureka which had either farming mobs as an option,nm’s,or things like dragons etc. Not to mention Relics weren’t locked behind time gated instances like bozja was lmao.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

You seem to be forgetting that each eureka zone also gave us exclusive glams and mounts, more than bozja did at the very least. Critical engagements equivalent to a dungeon boss? Most of them melt pretty easily lol. Not to mention you have bosses like cassie,pazuzu,louhi etc that fit the role of a far more difficult dungeon boss than most of the bozjan ones do. Also yes, 4 zones is a great feat, especially when you look at the ugly mess that bozja and zadnor are. Bozja is quite literally also fates on steroids, except even worse because it’s the only way to upgrade the relic inside bozja as opposed to eureka which had either farming mobs as an option,nm’s,or things like dragons etc. Not to mention Relics weren’t locked behind time gated instances like bozja was lmao.

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Curious have you done Eureka and Bozja? I don't see any mounts other than the t-rex from either of those venues on your lodestone. Curious what resistance rank you are in both of them? Have you done BA, Delibrum, Castrum, Dalraidia and DRS?

Edit: Actually I see your ranks on the classes page so you have done them. Certainly don't agree with your assessments but to each their own.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

You seem to be forgetting that each eureka zone also gave us exclusive glams and mounts, more than bozja did at the very least. Critical engagements equivalent to a dungeon boss? Most of them melt pretty easily lol. Not to mention you have bosses like cassie,pazuzu,louhi etc that fit the role of a far more difficult dungeon boss than most of the bozjan ones do. Also yes, 4 zones is a great feat, especially when you look at the ugly mess that bozja and zadnor are. Bozja is quite literally also fates on steroids, except even worse because it’s the only way to upgrade the relic inside bozja as opposed to eureka which had either farming mobs as an option,nm’s,or things like dragons etc. Not to mention Relics weren’t locked behind time gated instances like bozja was lmao.

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Oh you mean like the several mounts including Gabriel (x2), Deinonychus, Al-iklil, or the Construct 14 mounts, Wind-up Gunnhildr, Helldiver F1, and the Dainsleif mount, and the Cerberus Mounts? No I remember perfectly clearly thank you very much. As for with regards to glamour, a vast majority of those were direct reskins and reuses of old gear. Pagos? Check the Arachne Sets, Anemos Expeditionary gear? Check Valerian Sets. Anemos Jacket? Check Gyuki Leather DoL Lv63 set. Just reused assets. I'm sorry but there's very few unique assets in there, including Scorpion Harness, Cassie Earrings, Penthesilea's Spear, Shantotto's Staff, and Absolute Lance, and the Elemental Gear. On the other hand Bozja had both the Law's Order gearsets, and the Blade's gearsets.

I would beg to differ in that the difficult came largely from how obscenely annoying they were to spawn, but in either case the difficulty of one over the other would largely be down to perspectives and opinions. But if this would be your opinion of the difficulty then to be frank I would argue that the state of the dungeons has been this way long before Shadowbringers was out, because to be quite frank they were no better in Stormblood. You liking or disliking the aesthetic of them quite frankly has very little bearing or relevance to the content itself. Otherwise I could make the claim that the open world Stormblood zones were just sloppy, at best.

I think you're remembering this backwards, Eureka was the only way you could upgrade relics, whereas the Bozjan ones you could complete in a variety of ways including doing FATEs outside of Bozja itself, doing raids, or by doing 24-man raids. Arguably farming mobs and dragons arguably really only applied to Light, otherwise the only way you could obtain Pagos, Pyros, and Hydatos Crystals to my knowledge was by farming NMs, or more appropriately a renamed FATE. You probably haven't done very many Eureka relics if you didn't think Eureka wasn't subjected to the self-same abysmal circumstances that you've attributed to Bozja. You know, seeing as practically every single NM was locked behind a 2 hour respawn timer in addition to their spawn conditions (Inc. Gales, and Heatwaves in the case of Anemos/Pyros - You know, both of which can be several hours apart.). Nah they didn't have time gated instances, just time gated NMs instead which to be frank is even more abysmal.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

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Reread my post please. I specified getting relics inside bozja, not outside of it. Yes you could only upgrade relics in eureka however there were numerous ways to go about it. Bozja however you could only upgrade it 1 way in the instance itself, and the overall quests were gated behind time gated instances. I’m happy you brought up reused gear though because that’s the same thing we’ve seen in these expert dungeons that they’ve supposedly spent more time on. What improvements are there exactly from sb dungeons? We’re still getting undyable dungeon gear AND reused gear, just look at anamnesis. Literally Shire gear not even role swapped. It’s beyond lazy. Yes there were some time gated nm’s but eventually you could exchange their materials for crystals so they weren’t even mandatory. They said Bozja was going to be taking the positive aspects of Eureka, yet bozja still has all the same problems. They also originally said we wouldn’t have to step foot into bozja to complete the relics and turns out that was a flat out lie. Irregardless were talking about dungeons and they specifically said dungeons got removed to improve upon the current dungeons we did get and there really isn’t that much of an improvement at all. I. fact they’re just heavily simplified.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

RIrregardless were talking about dungeons and they specifically said dungeons got removed to improve upon the current dungeons we did get and there really isn’t that much of an improvement at all. I. fact they’re just heavily simplified.

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Provide a link please supporting this statement.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Provide a link please supporting this statement.

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You can look for it yourself. I’m not going to waste time skimming over countless interviews to find something i know was said. You clearly have a lot of time on your hands considering you spent the time looking through my mounts and ranks etc. Go look for it yourself.