3.5/4.0 Speculation & Discussion (Spoilers)

Just to play with this more, I bet how people feel about the Empire really comes down to which Legion conquered them.

If I remember correctly, one of the Legatii that went to Othard was...Nael. And she was one hell of a cruel steward (even before Bahamut Tempered her). Those she probably put into power in her place most likely also rule with force and cruelty, and the people under them are/were likely living in some terrible conditions.

On the other hand, Gaius is more "fair" as far as being a steward goes, taking people on merit and likely treats those conquered who follow better than slaves (unlike other Legatii are implied to). If we went to Ala Mihgo when he was still ruling it, I wouldn't be completely surprised if it wasn't *terrible*, and the people weren't completely unhappy (since they are Ala Mihgans, they'd still be unhappy at their forced servitude and all...but much better off than anyone under Nael). Unfortunately, he's not in charge anymore, and his successor is said to be far more cruel and just evil... (heck, that smile in the trailer was just plain evil)



Personally, I'm not looking at Rhitahtyn's words that much because of what Gaius said after he died; accusing his men of abandoning the Roe (instead of following his orders to let him fight the WoL 1v1) because he was a conquered person, not someone who was born into the Empire. This tells me Rhitahtyn's situation is *rare* and extremely unlikely to happen. Doesn't mean people can't find ways to do well with the Empire mind you (though, they're all likely military-oriented and benefit in that way), but doing as well as Rhitahtyn did...he may be one of a very few conquered who became so trusted by a Legatus.

I'm still confused by the claim that Zenos is 'evil' given that he's in charge of the XIIth Legion. So far each Legion that we've encountered has been heavily inspired by events, themes and characters in their corresponding games. XII had very few straight up villains. Vayne did some pretty terrible things, certainly, but his 'end game' was to save the world from shadowy manipulators. Gabranth was presented as an outright villain at the start of the game but in reality he was more of an anti-hero and played a major part in saving Larsa who, in turn, prevented the Archadian Empire from falling into ruin.

So, I wonder, is Zenos going to be inspired by Gabranth or Vayne given that he's the main antagonist of 4.0? If it's neither, then there's going to be some other reason for fighting against the XIIth Legion. I don't believe it'd be named that unless the whole 'complex morality' of XII was going to be actively embraced. Perhaps Regula survives the events of 3.5 and ends up playing the role of 'Gabranth' throughout 4.0? If the Emperor survives the events of 3.5...will he turn against his own son for the sake of maintaining stability? He seems like the sort of person who wouldn't want his authority to be undermined, even if it's by his own flesh and blood. Nor does he seem the sort to willingly turn a blind eye to acts that threaten the stability of the Garlean Empire.

I guess all that depends on how far the FF6 references go in 3.5 and whether we're getting a Kefka and/or Gestahl moment.

While it's beyond doubt that the (False) Griffin's opinion of Zenos is heavily biased, his word is all we have about Zenos so far... and as you know, it's not flattering at all. I'm not the type to judge a person as good or bad before getting to know them, though, and whatever plans Zenos has yet remain completely in the dark. We've only gotten the barest glimpse of him in-game, in the 3.5 trailer!

... that said, just because he's the Legatus of the XIIth Legion doesn't mean he'll be an analogue to a major character or antagonist from XII. We don't know if Regula is going to be an analogue to a VI character, though that's widely speculated to be the case. While Nael had some conspicuous similarities to Sephiroth, aside from being on a floating continent with the Warring Triad we don't really have any major similarities between Regula and any VI character that I know of. Yet. That could change in 3.5 but until we know it is... going to... err...

It could be that Zenos is actually a good person pretending to be a tyrant so once he's made Emperor he can reform the Empire and liberate all the conquered territories. Perhaps he knows about the Ascians and is working on some complex scheme to free history from their reins what requires him to be a douche until he pulls it off. Or perhaps he really is just an iron-heeled tyrant and the XIIth Legion is just representative of the moral ambiguity surrounding the Resistance factions and revolution in general. Time will tell.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'm still confused by the claim that Zenos is 'evil' given that he's in charge of the XIIth Legion. So far each Legion that we've encountered has been heavily inspired by events, themes and characters in their corresponding games. XII had very few straight up villains. Vayne did some pretty terrible things, certainly, but his 'end game' was to save the world from shadowy manipulators. Gabranth was presented as an outright villain at the start of the game but in reality he was more of an anti-hero and played a major part in saving Larsa who, in turn, prevented the Archadian Empire from falling into ruin.

So, I wonder, is Zenos going to be inspired by Gabranth or Vayne given that he's the main antagonist of 4.0? If it's neither, then there's going to be some other reason for fighting against the XIIth Legion. I don't believe it'd be named that unless the whole 'complex morality' of XII was going to be actively embraced. Perhaps Regula survives the events of 3.5 and ends up playing the role of 'Gabranth' throughout 4.0? If the Emperor survives the events of 3.5...will he turn against his own son for the sake of maintaining stability? He seems like the sort of person who wouldn't want his authority to be undermined, even if it's by his own flesh and blood. Nor does he seem the sort to willingly turn a blind eye to acts that threaten the stability of the Garlean Empire.

I guess all that depends on how far the FF6 references go in 3.5 and whether we're getting a Kefka and/or Gestahl moment.

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I think the assumption that Zenos is bad comes from the fact his is stated to be the main antagonist of the next expansion and that Yoshi P stated in an interview at LA fanfest that unlike previous antagonists, he doesn't expect anyone to sympathise with Zenos. That suggests that Zenos is going to be someone that no one is supposed to like and traditionally that type of character tends to be rotten to the core.

I should point out that I don't believe life under Garlean rule is neccesarily a complete nightmare. Garlemald would be a very unsuccessful empire if it didn't manage to keep the populous relatively pacified. However I think there are winners and losers under Garlean rules and winners really win while the losers really lose. There focus on control would mean that generally they wouldn't tolerate strife or crime and they would likely do at least a bare minimum to be sure that their lands were somewhat productive. However Garlemald's focus on power and expansionism means they have a habit of using the populous like a commodity to be used to pursue their empirical agenda. Of course this would vary a great deal depending on the local governor running the area but the current military and political administration doesn't come across as being overly concerned about occupied people.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Just to play with this more, I bet how people feel about the Empire really comes down to which Legion conquered them.

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This could be a pretty meaningful observation. (And who rules them after, of course.) Garleans, Ala Mhigans, and Resistance alike seemed united in saying that the tone of the Western Theatre changed once "Nael" van Darnus assumed control of it. There might not be much oversight until it's deemed necessary; each territory might reflect its unique rule, better or worse. Recall that the VIth faced little dissent and got along so famously with their occupied territories that they took bribes as a militia-for-rent ... until it eroded their integrity.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'm still confused by the claim that Zenos is 'evil' given that he's in charge of the XIIth Legion.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

It could be that Zenos is actually a good person pretending to be a tyrant

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As Belhi said, the main "Zenos is actually evil." arises from Naoki Yoshida himself.

Gaius was apparently never supposed to be sympathetic, they just accidentally created the perfect storm to stoke that sentiment. 1.00 introduced him as literally Judge Vader. He was brutal, he was badass, and he murdered everyone Minfilia assigned you to help when the Path of the Twelve stumbled upon an Ala Mhigan Resistance operation. Then someone flashier, more brutal, with less principle, mercy, and sanity showed up and abused him for several patches before Gaius threw him into a laser shaft betrayed him to the Alliance for bringing dishonor to Garlemald and deceiving the Emperor. Then SE got to sit back and watch as people proclaimed, "Hell, yeah! Wolfy is back! Team Greater Good! BFFs!", which wasn't quelled very much when some people couldn't really get behind the GC leadership.

They almost made him hateful again throughout ARR, but it turned out that he'd never recovered from his fall from grace in the first place and was trying to outmaneuver another really awful choice for a Garlean leadership figure. So Gaius, still pathetically desperate to reclaim his honor and position, teamed up with the Ascians and got tossed aside when his goals weren't even really ever on the table. Meanwhile being pretty much correct in most of his statements: Your leaders are weak. Your lands are plagued in false beliefs. More primals are coming. Go ahead and summon your gods, watch how well that works out for you. So now we've got Varis Repeat-Allag's-Mistakes zos Galvus and a certain faction of public sentiment, myself included, stuck with this sense of "This guy's a threat to The Mission and Garlean honor both! Where my Wolf at!? It's greater good time! You can still be great!"

Yoshida seems to want to avoid that entirely, lol. (Not that there's no room for a "Larsa" someday.)

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Famitsu
You also said that Zenos will have a unique personality compared to the previous generals. Is there anything you can tell us about that?

Yoshida
I will just say that he will be a character which no one will sympathize with.

Famitsu
It seems like he holds a katana. By some chance, does he…?

Yoshida
His weapon has nothing to do with his personality, but if you’re asking if it’s a gunblade then yes, it is. Try to look at his art again (laugh). We received a lot of thoughts from players that they wanted to work for Gaius because the 3 cities were “brown noses” so they couldn’t bring themselves to like them. In case of Zenos, I think no one will think of him like that. (laugh) He’s a type of villain you haven’t seen so far.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

While Nael had some conspicuous similarities to Sephiroth, aside from being on a floating continent with the Warring Triad we don't really have any major similarities between Regula and any VI character that I know of.

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There are some potential Kefka nods, but they seem pretty subtle. The most obvious of which being that the Ceruleum Servant he summoned was a tiger, one of the enemies used in Kefka's Tower. Idk where it's going, but I'm pretty sure he's not getting out of 3.5 alive.

He definitely dies now. His story will end with 3.5

As for Nael and her occupation of Othard.. Ivalice might be a place within Othard. So inless we go to the real Ivalice we might actually see for ourselves how Othard looks. Granted Nael is long dead, but a few echo visions would be nice.

I know many people have been looking for comparisons to Kefka and/or hoping the triad ends with a tower of the gods type of battle. Although there are some nods, I feel regula has shown himself to be both sane and extremely loyal to the empire.

The only way I can see the story coming around to a Kefka ending would be if they incorporate the proto-ultima trial we are supposed to be getting into the warring triad arc. I heard many of those who tried the fight claim it was very easy. It would be more difficult if it utilized moves from the triad similar to expert ultima.

I could see Regula taking control of the machine for the empire. Perhaps he finds a way to absorb lingering aether of the triad unto the machine. Maybe the reason the proto ultima was not the final weapon was due to the inability of the machine to protect the operator from exposure to primal aether. It could be a convenient way to tie up the loose ends, give us a tower fight, and call back to vi.

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Originally Posted by Regavalt

The only way I can see the story coming around to a Kefka ending would be if they incorporate the proto-ultima trial we are supposed to be getting into the warring triad arc. I heard many of those who tried the fight claim it was very easy. It would be more difficult if it utilized moves from the triad similar to expert ultima.

I could see Regula taking control of the machine for the empire. Perhaps he finds a way to absorb lingering aether of the triad unto the machine. Maybe the reason the proto ultima was not the final weapon was due to the inability of the machine to protect the operator from exposure to primal aether. It could be a convenient way to tie up the loose ends, give us a tower fight, and call back to vi.

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That might actually happen. Last fan fest gave us the Odin trial and it ended up in the last ARR patch. Personally I only need one more thing for Regula to have in common with Kefka. Being dead.

I'm actually hoping that neither Regula or Varis die. Not only are they tied to the main story but they're both major players with a lot of potential. Having Regula (or Varis) go crazy for the sake of a 'Kefka' reference feels very off to me. I'd prefer them to succeed at gathering resources from Azyz Lla and serve as long term rather than temporary antagonists. Regula has the potential to be a 'Beatrix', 'Drace' or 'Gabranth' - which is something we're desperately in need of. It's also getting a bit predictable and tiresome for Garleans to become unhinged and crazy at this point. Especially when the protagonists are allowed to operate Allagan technology or stand around Primals/Eikons with absolutely no negative consequences on their part.

It's also possible that Regula will die through tragic circumstances (a recent trend has been for 'sad deaths' for antagonists, after all) but it'd at least be better if he dies saving the Emperor's life and giving Varis a personal reason to hate the Scions and Warrior of Light. If his best friend - and son - end up dead at their hands then that raises the stakes and pretty much adds some pretty major shades of grey.

Elidibus having a servant involved with all the craziness going on in Azyz Lla doesn't bode well, however. I do think that somehow the Scions and Warrior of Light will be tricked into doing something very stupid. Or perhaps Unukali will be the 'Kefka' in the name of a misguided cause. Either way, if something big happens it desperately needs to tie in with the MSQ's.

I'm just tired of him after he pulled the same "gonna fight you and run away" trick three times. I just can't take him seriously as as threat. Let him get a noble death and pave the way for more compelling villains. Preferrably ones that are actually villainous, have a more nuanced personality than Nidhogg, and have their own musical themes beside the standard Garlean theme and a remix of Rise of the White Raven. Oh and make sure they have a more direct role in current events (looking at you, Elidibus).