An open discsusion on the consequences of death

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Originally Posted by Argh

you want it all, don't you? i mean, it's easy to say "yeah just give it the freedom of WoW and stuff and stuff.". but you don't realize that the game must be completely re-done to implement jump and swim and all the other freedom of movements because this game was not designed like that from it's inception. all the animations and graphics must be redone. the world must be redone to accomidate the freedom and give it a meaning. you are asking for a completely new game.

implementing a meaningless jump ability just for it's visual appeal does nothing to gameplay and won't save the game. if they allow a jump but at the same do not allow falling off a cliff to your death the jump becomes pointless as it is a false sense of freedom. ffxiv is a bastard child of ffxi. they stripped all the gameplay mechanics that made the FF mmo great and replaced them with trash. they don't need jumping and cartwheeling. they just need to implement the abandoned FF mmo gameplay mechanics to get back on track.

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But what if they implemented a collision type of jump? I run into a small ledge, I climb over it? It's not that serious, a change code (which is not minor, I understand) but it's just a change in code none the less.

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Originally Posted by Anathiel

alright, I see what you're saying rubicon, but at the same time, gear breaking isn't necessarily the answer. well...after another sip from the glass, it might be. it's a gil sink, when gil is so so rare at the beginning of playing it's the reason why you shouldn't run from one area to the other nilly nally about what mob aggro's you, but at the end of the game it's nothing, a 50k gil repair when I'm making 200k gil from a instanced dungeon run is nothing, just something to be expected.

I agree with the aetheryte option, putting it in the beginning of a dungeon or not at all, (outside the dungeon if anything). Running back in a weakened state would really put the screws to a party that's not working well together.

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It is a gil sink and it makes you think about your actions. Look, dying once doesn't break your gear but repeated dying with no repair will. And if the gear is your rank or below, doesn't gear not deteriorate as fast? Really it's a great penalty for those who's gear is the wrong rank or class. It's a great penalty to those who act careless. It's a great way for crafters to make gil.

Plus if you play the game right, you get lots of gil. And a working economy only helps your pocketbook.

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Originally Posted by Rubicon

You guys are cute. I posted two good ideas and you all still argue over XP/SP loss. Let me say this again, we don't have to have SP/XP loss but there needs to be a penalty greater than sit down for 3 minutes.

* All gear should break at 0%. Makes for smarter play and a better economy for repairs and crafters.
* Some gear should be Break On Death. Make this gear have special stats. Players will try hard to keep it.
* No instance should have an aetheryte, and if it does then put it at the start of the instance. This will make failure assured if a party wipes too far in.

There you go. No SP/XP loss at all. :D

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sounds like it would be too dificult to balance. what constiutes which gear would break upon death? is that AF armor you worked 4 months for just going to break if you die, requring a ton of gil to repair?

just saying that a nice xp loss penalty is dificult to beat. even if the game did not change at all and they add xp loss upon dying, it would transform the battle system. players would act as teams from here on out to ensure they don't die, or die recklessely.

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Originally Posted by Benediction

This is actually a pretty cool idea. Though it's as worse or more worse than SP/EXP loss xD But great idea indeed lol Forces players to take fights more seriously rather than just go in and wing them lol

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It really IS worse than SP/XP loss for the player but it's better for the economy. I'd rather have SP loss but the community doesn't seem to want it. But no one can seem to give an equal penalty that they are ok with. This, I believe, is it plus gives the crafters something more to do.

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Originally Posted by Anathiel

But what if they implemented a collision type of jump? I run into a small ledge, I climb over it? It's not that serious, a change code (which is not minor, I understand) but it's just a change in code none the less.

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i think a zelda-style jump would do nothing to stop the players whining about jumps and cartwheels. it would just encourage players to scream "we want a real jump". it would probably be a waste of development time as far more serious issues need to be worked on, are my thoughts on this.

lets fix the game and then see what they can add to it. i think this is the logical step.

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Originally Posted by Argh

you want it all, don't you? i mean, it's easy to say "yeah just give it the freedom of WoW and stuff and stuff.". but you don't realize that the game must be completely re-done to implement jump and swim and all the other freedom of movements because this game was not designed like that from it's inception. all the animations and graphics must be redone. the world must be redone to accomidate the freedom and give it a meaning. you are asking for a completely new game.

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actually no, XIV is done on crystal tools, if the implement XIII jumping there is probably a lot they can copy over.

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Originally Posted by Argh

implementing a meaningless jump ability just for it's visual appeal does nothing to gameplay and won't save the game. if they allow a jump but at the same do not allow falling off a cliff to your death the jump becomes pointless as it is a false sense of freedom.

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There are little plateaus all over the place often times with only way up onto them. And part of the fun of exploration are finding little shortcuts to make your trip a little shorter.Jump is a matter of convenience.

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Originally Posted by Argh

ffxiv is a bastard child of ffxi. they stripped all the gameplay mechanics that made the FF mmo great and replaced them with trash. they don't need jumping and cartwheeling. they just need to implement the abandoned FF mmo gameplay mechanics to get back on track.

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We need features the casual player likes first, some of those were in XI, some of those are standard things other games have. And usually its things that lean away from making you feel like you've lost progress when you've made a mistake.

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Originally Posted by Rubicon

It is a gil sink and it makes you think about your actions. Look, dying once doesn't break your gear but repeated dying with no repair will. And if the gear is your rank or below, doesn't gear not deteriorate as fast? Really it's a great penalty for those who's gear is the wrong rank or class. It's a great penalty to those who act careless. It's a great way for crafters to make gil.

Plus if you play the game right, you get lots of gil. And a working economy only helps your pocketbook.

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Yep, I feel we're on the same page now Rubicon, I hope the dev's take a long and serious look at what you're posting

You know what would be really cool? If you died...that's it. Your character is deleted.

It would both instill a sense of fear of death that everyone wants, and would also add to that whole immersion/realism thing!

I see no flaws in this idea whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Argh

sounds like it would be too dificult to balance. what constiutes which gear would break upon death? is that AF armor you worked 4 months for just going to break if you die, requring a ton of gil to repair?

just saying that a nice xp loss penalty is dificult to beat. even if the game did not change at all and they add xp loss upon dying, it would transform the battle system. players would act as teams from here on out to ensure they don't die, or die recklessely.

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I am adamant about 0% break. I am soft on the Break On Death items. By items I mean accessories. Certainly AF would not break. But a special NM drop could, say a +4 INT ring. For example lets call it Diamond Ring (sound familiar hehe) with two versions (forget +1, +2 for now): Diamond Ring and Diamond Ring (B). The "B" is for Brittle. Diamond Ring drops are rare but Diamond Ring (B) is less rare, just BOD.

P.S. I see what you are saying about AF. AFs could be special and not go below 1% or not break at 0%, just lose stats. Hard to think about before any AFs are released and the gear situation is fixed. Obviously this plan needs working out, I am just trying to give alternatives to SP loss.

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Originally Posted by Chromeo_El_Lobo

You know what would be really cool? If you died...that's it. Your character is deleted.

It would both instill a sense of fear of death that everyone wants, and would also add to that whole immersion/realism thing!

I see no flaws in this idea whatsoever.

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The flaw is you can still remake another character. If you die, you lose your account and SE will block you from buying another copy for the rest of your life. That's a better idea.