SE enough of the treadmill, please make the game more interesting!

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Originally Posted by Avarghaladion

They axe murdered any concept of situational gear or abilities. Even killed the elemental wheel, a staple of RPGs and JRPGs alike. Kill Ifrit with Fire! Kill Ramuh with Raiton!

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After talking with a FC mate.... "killed" in the sense that it's currently not in used, but after looking through combat logs and various stats, it seems it's all there just not actually doing anything. Spells still say the element type and if it doesn't have an affinity, just there is no... reaction to that info.

Maybe one day it will come back but I won't hold my breath.

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Originally Posted by Magis

After talking with a FC mate.... "killed" in the sense that it's currently not in used, but after looking through combat logs and various stats, it seems it's all there just not actually doing anything. Spells still say the element type and if it doesn't have an affinity, just there is no... reaction to that info.

Maybe one day it will come back but I won't hold my breath.

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Yeh prolly a remnant froom earlier programming. I don't think there'll ever be real changes unless there's a repeat of 1.0's situation where they lose enough customers/share they're forced to react. They seem fine with a revolving door MMO as long as it's profitable. Probably a frustrating project to work on, from a design team perspective.

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Originally Posted by Avarghaladion

Yeh prolly a remnant froom earlier programming. I don't think there'll ever be real changes unless there's a repeat of 1.0's situation where they lose enough customers/share they're forced to react. They seem fine with a revolving door MMO as long as it's profitable. Probably a frustrating project to work on, from a design team perspective.

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I've been in those situations, a whole system designed and then the lead says to shut it off and leave it in. Wonder if the programmers got annoyed that they spent time building this system and then it just get's deactivated.

The problem with Final Fantasy A Realm Reborn is SE is going after the casual MMORPG market which is shrinking because mobile devices are dominating that demographic. That's why Sony and Microsoft focus on the hard core market which brings in the mid core players and convert casual to their platform. Also they help indies put games on their system. WoW is an anomaly it was the 1st to streamline and polish strong features of other MMORPG's and achieve mass market appeal by getting players that never played mmorpgs or games so it shouldn't be used as a industry standard because most MMORPG's will have a sub base of 200k. Only way SE or any developer can get the mass market appeal of WoW is to redefine MMORPGS. Open World MMORPG with extensive character customization, extensive ability customization and open horizontal progression. Basically single player game mechanics in a shared virtual world.

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Originally Posted by Avarghaladion

If SE did such a fantastic job of teaching people their roles in XIV there wouldn't be i110 players with no idea how to fulfill their roles' basic requirements, let alone how to optimize those roles in a very simplistic game. I feel your perspective here is coloured by the fact that you're personally a more experienced gamer in the MMO realm now, so you can catch onto things faster. XIV does provide "direction" in the form of the extensive hand-holding quest chains, but it certainly doesn't provide any more guidance than XI or any other MMO. Even the class/job quests that are designed to test one's ability to apply what they've learned just pump players full of echo until they clear them.

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This. If anything, the hand-holding we're given seems misplaced or even truncated, teaching little more than how to work quest triggers while ideas of skill and gear optimization, fulfilling one's own role, and thereby supporting other's roles, are all left without any in-game instruction outside of mentor players (who are great, and irreplaceable, but probably not desiring to teach every person who pops into tab-target combat MMO or its raid settings for the first time).

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

This. If anything, the hand-holding we're given seems misplaced or even truncated, teaching little more than how to work quest triggers while ideas of skill and gear optimization, fulfilling one's own role, and thereby supporting other's roles, are all left without any in-game instruction outside of mentor players (who are great, and irreplaceable, but probably not desiring to teach every person who pops into tab-target combat MMO or its raid settings for the first time).

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Not to mention that in anything that matters, as long as they're passably skilled, it's more important to have memorized the mechanics than it is to know your job.

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Originally Posted by Avarghaladion

They axe murdered any concept of situational gear or abilities. Even killed the elemental wheel, a staple of RPGs and JRPGs alike. Kill Ifrit with Fire! Kill Ramuh with Raiton!

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Probably because in order for situational gear/abilities to not turn into the likeness FFXI gear set bloating and similar choicelessness, or for the elemental wheel to not stack/exclude elementalists, a lot more underlying mechanics (the elemental wheel among the most notable, and weapon types another key example) would have to be more than name-deep.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with killing a giant fire lizard primal with fire. It should just probably be by melting its scales off with the combined heat rather than by gradually back-smacking him with flames. Wind on Garuda... feed it additional wind damage in the process, but throw off her attacks, unbalance her, etc, and make use of what air magic she throws at you in return--a true Vortex fight, with our side, too, (riskily) making use of a deadly resource rather than merely outlasting its power.

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Originally Posted by Avarghaladion

In general, I haven't seen most people wanting things to be made that complex... just any sort of change to give the gameplay even the slightest bit more depth. The game has potential and there's a good foundation but there's just not enough here to run a decade of status quo additions. I can't think of a more simplistic MMO in regards to virtually every aspect of the game. The areas where they do try to add complexity are silly (ie. colouring your choco, changing the appearance of your equipped gear, dying certain gear). It plays kinda like a last-gen, single-player hack 'n slash only with every fight being completely identical every time you run it and with less than half the content. Of course people aren't going to have ongoing appreciation for that, especially not when they're paying a minimum of ~$144/yr for it (forcibly so if they own housing and don't want to lose it). We pay way more for this than any number of big budget titles and SE's quality control is quasi-existent, at best.

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Like I said, you need to get out of the mind set that the backbone of the system is what is needed to be changed. Find depth in content, not what the hell is going on in your UI.

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If SE did such a fantastic job of teaching people their roles in XIV there wouldn't be i110 players with no idea how to fulfill their roles' basic requirements, let alone how to optimize those roles in a very simplistic game. I feel your perspective here is coloured by the fact that you're personally a more experienced gamer in the MMO realm now, so you can catch onto things faster. XIV does provide "direction" in the form of the extensive hand-holding quest chains, but it certainly doesn't provide any more guidance than XI or any other MMO. Even the class/job quests that are designed to test one's ability to apply what they've learned just pump players full of echo until they clear them.

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Sometimes you can't teach a person no matter how many times you try. There is a difference between a bad explanation of your game vs. someone who just does not want to learn the game. Also your statement is inaccurate. How you feel it was done is your own opinion, but pretty much most quests leading up to 50, especially your class/job quests and guildhests, are teaching you how to play the game in many perspectives. You are taught to play your class, explore crafting/gathering, look into playing other classes, party functions at 15+, and so on. Please don't compare it to FFXI where you are literally given no explanation of how your game works at all. You can criticize how the tutorial is done in FFXIV, but don't compare it to something that didn't even try to give a sense of direction.

If you don't know where you are suppose to go or know what you are doing in the first few minutes of you playing, that is bad game design. Even open sandbox games at least let you know what you should be doing and you find other things to do by exploring.

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Finally, the "here's a sword, enjoy your adventure" approach is a bit of RPG flavour whereas XIV is very very much an extreme case of a traditionally scripted JRPG to the point where there is zero customization and the path is essentially linear. I suspect the reason they chose to follow a more western RPG model in the past has been due to its ability to grant longevity and diversity to a long-running title. XIV is almost 100% pure JRPG. Pretty bold move but as everyone and the dev's are gradually realizing, making content in a totally linear system you're trying to draw out for years and years and years and years is a real whore. They're utterly dependent on every cheesy method under the sun to stall the playerbase as much as possible and as frequently as possible in pretty much every facet of gameplay.

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MMO developers using methods to stall players until new content comes? I never heard of that before.

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Originally Posted by Avarghaladion

As rough as 1.0 was before they started fixing it, I never felt this pigeonholed. The materia system was closer to how you've described and you could make choices with your gear to optimize different things for different situations. People do argue that it's harder to balance, which is true, but this isn't a tiny company. We pay a hefty subscription and their current model requires pretty much zero effort to go into maintaining game balance on account of there being only one "correct" way to play any job at any given time. Every job is pretty much a reskin. They axe murdered any concept of situational gear or abilities. Even killed the elemental wheel, a staple of RPGs and JRPGs alike. Kill Ifrit with Fire! Kill Ramuh with Raiton!

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It matters not the size of your company, balance is balance and the most difficult thing to deal with in an MMO. Not exactly people with lab coats figuring this stuff out. I will say this again and a million more times if I have to, you cannot beat people's BiS methods. No matter how many different variations and concepts and options added to your job, there will always be one spec that dominates it all and everyone will do that. You cannot change that. SE already has options for you to build on certain secondary stats instead of others. The elemental wheel is a broken system, both FFXI and XIV 1.xx proved that.

If you want a broken game that has a chaotic form of keeping balance and keep certain jobs out of content, then please, keep making these suggestions. I will however be suggesting ideas that improve on what is already there, like content, because the stat system isn't broken.

Both the content and the stats become a boring treadmill without substance. Why should I bother going through hell x amount of times for the next shiny that is available at the same price, in the same place, doing the same content? . I am not paid to be a game developer, though I can certainly say that their solutions are not working out for me.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Why should I bother going through hell x amount of times for the next shiny that is available at the same price, in the same place, doing the same content?

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Why do you even play video games with that kind of attitude? It always doing something x amount of times for some shiny reward. If you have a problem with that then I think you may have picked a hobby incompatible with your preferences.