Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

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Originally Posted by ArcturusWhisper

TBH I have a lot less issue with the "installing their ruler" in itself. I mean Alexandria wants to genocide the Source, it's good we put them under supervision. Sorry not sorry.

But why does Wuk Lamat get to decide who we should install just by herself? And she chose a kid that she just adopted which basically means she gets to rule by proxy? At the very least consult with Koana first?

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I just have to step in on this one. For all of the many many reasons I have issue with the DT story, and this scene in particular this one is just not a problem. Wuk Lamat is the leader of Tural, and she spearheaded the expedition into Alexandria, and helped liberate the kingdom from Zoraal Ja's Tyranny, and killed Sphene. The Scions on the other hand have immense political clout back in the old world, but in the world world especially Alexandria which is from another shard, our words don't hold much weight. As leader of a neighboring nation she's really the only one with the authority. It isn't even that crazy of an idea. Stuff like this did happen in real life.

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Originally Posted by DiscoDuck

Good god...

Just won the lvl 95 solo duty by doing absolutely nothing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGtY1aPrOMQ

This is worse than participation trophies...this is pathetic....now to see if a duty support with Mary Sue can be won by doing absolutely nothing. Regardless of the results I'll just do dungeons with real people to get thru faster.

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Quoting myself to say that yes, I was able to win the 95 Dungeon doing nothing but dodge...Is this how bad AAA "modern audience" games and "remade for the modern audience" are now? There should be penalties for doing things like this like if you do not engage and attack the target the npcs get weakened and if one dies you have to start all over again. If its truly this bad then it might not be the danger hair localizers and "modern audience" that end the game but a second video game crash cause people are getting sick and tired of having games get made for people who ether don't play it or in this game's case treat it like a Second Life/VR chat erp session with some Final Fantasy flavor.

Maybe if enough people complain maybe just maybe DT will cause a second 1.0 -> ARR and DT can get rewritten without the Mary Sue and "forgetting" previous parts of the story. I like the music outside of Disney Resort and Smile, the exploration and looks of the areas are good, the fights are good, the nods to other FF titles is good but get rid of all this handholding, babies first video game, cater to the people who hate the company and want to warp it into what they want then abandon it or infect then leave an empty husk of what it was. And if that makes the people who treat this game like Second Life/VR Chat mad so be it. Gatekeeping works.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Especially jarring when you consider the fact that at the end of 6.0, the Scion is so self-aware of their influence that they impose a self-banned so that they don't inadvertently effect nation's politic.

Yet ironically, and idiotically in DT I think we have the most direct involvement in playing kingmaker then we ever did comparing to all other expansion.

Just another point to show that the new writing team did a horrible job in maintaining consistency in the story, like it's almost they don't care.

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The "disbanding" was primarily so the different nations within Eorzea would stop relying so heavily on the Scions to do all the heavy lifting and start taking the lead in solving their own problems, while the Scions went back to doing what the Scions did before they got so heavily involved in the "Eorzean Grand Company" or whatever it was called. I just looked up the cutscene again and Y'shtola straight up says:

"From now on, it falls to the Grand Companies of Eorzea and its allies to deal with the realm's crises."

With Urianger then adding:

"Meanwhile, we shall return to our erstwhile ways."

There's no consistency issue there. The Scions just wanted Eorzea to stop relying on them to do everything so they (the Scions) could get back to doing their own thing and making their own decisions rather than being ordered about by the Grand Companies. It wasn't about "affecting politics" that persuaded them to "disband." I swear, we've now reached the point of literally making things up just to find excuses to trash the dev team. Seriously...

It nonetheless feels kind of silly if people are still routinely turning to them to solve their problems by virtue of them being Archons.

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Originally Posted by SableHahma

I just have to step in on this one. For all of the many many reasons I have issue with the DT story, and this scene in particular this one is just not a problem. Wuk Lamat is the leader of Tural, and she spearheaded the expedition into Alexandria, and helped liberate the kingdom from Zoraal Ja's Tyranny, and killed Sphene. The Scions on the other hand have immense political clout back in the old world, but in the world world especially Alexandria which is from another shard, our words don't hold much weight. As leader of a neighboring nation she's really the only one with the authority. It isn't even that crazy of an idea. Stuff like this did happen in real life.

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I will concede that it could make sense, realistically. But I think it all comes down to that everything just lacks weight the way it's gone about, and that makes me feel irritated.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

There's no consistency issue there. The Scions just wanted Eorzea to stop relying on them to do everything so they (the Scions) could get back to doing their own thing and making their own decisions rather than being ordered about by the Grand Companies. It wasn't about "affecting politics" that persuaded them to "disband."

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Then you need to take your own advise and look at what the "Scion used to do". Blatantly playing kingmaker sure as hell wasn't one of them.

- In 2.0, most of them were simply advisors. Especially Y'stola who had a very strong opinion against how Maelstrom treat the Sahargarin, but she never stepped out out bound.

- The whole reason why the original base of the Scion was located at the waking sand was to avoid the political influence of the syndicate.

- Afterward they relocated to Mor Dorha for the exact same reason.

- Alphinaugh's fail attempt to create the Scion's own GC was out of the desire of being operational independence.

- Throughout 3.0 - 6.0, the Scion helped solving problem never once we involved in the formation government. Isghard came up with their own, Ala Migho came up with thier own, Hien was already the king, Eulmore chose their own, even Garlemald is allowed to have their own internal debate.

- Never once the Scion stepped over the line and allowed themselves to make the judgement call.


But in DT, we do a double dipper and decide who deserved to rule and who doesn't, then execute it. I'm pretty sure it's that very same scene that you're citing in your argument, Thranced said the Scion will go back and against observe silently from the shadow. Excuse my French but "from the shadow" my arse, our foray in DT is anything but that. Not only we were straight up playing king maker, we did it from pretty much front and center. Remember that even before DT was released, the story premise already rub people the wrong way. Some already asked the question "why do we agree in participating in a rite of successor?" because that just how much out of character for the Scion was. And believe it or not, I actually defended the story back then. I told people that the invitation is probably just an excuse to start the story, there would probably some twist and turn that'll take the story in a different direction. And obviously I was wrong, not only they didn't change the direction, they're double down on it and the Scion basically became a paradogy of the CIA.


Is THAT consistency for you? 'Cause it's sure as heck doesn't look that way to me.

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I swear, we've now reached the point of literally making things up just to find excuses to trash the dev team. Seriously...

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I swear I didn't have to do it because they already give me more reason that I ever need to believe they're bad writers. This is just one of the MANY instance where this writing team demonstrate they either have a very bad attention to detail or simply writing in the wrong medium. To me it's very obvious whoever wrote this are more used to screenplay where each scenes tend to be more compartmentalized and the focus is on the drama and emotional impact rather than the end to end congruence. That doesn't tend to work in a contemporary story because unlike playwright, this medium actually needs consistency.

The dev really need to let go the scion for real, maybe we still have their companion once in a while but not the whole scion, urianger and thancred is basically free people, just let them go yoshi, the twin should be busy again with garlean so again let them go too

Yshtola probably busy in library, krile and graha also the same, the only person that make sense to join our adventure is estinien tbh

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Originally Posted by gumas

The dev really need to let go the scion for real, maybe we still have their companion once in a while but not the whole scion, urianger and thancred is basically free people, just let them go yoshi, the twin should be busy again with garlean so again let them go too

Yshtola probably busy in library, krile and graha also the same, the only person that make sense to join our adventure is estinien tbh

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I think people should stop fixating on "they should let the scions go", which is a superficial issue. It's not the core problem. They are all our friends, if the devs have brains that allow them to write well, they can legitimately come adventuring with us if they like, since as you said they are "free people", why can't free people join us? And why can't they have new stories too? I mean the devs can choose not to, but that's not inevitable no matter what people claim. People who dislike these characters will like to not see them, that's totally understandable, but that's a separate issue. There are tons of characters I don't like seeing again, doesn't mean if the devs have chosen to they can't make more new stories for them, my taste notwithstanding.

The fundamental problem is that the devs no longer know how to write ANY characters and stories in a not "in-your-face" and superficial way. There are tons of new characters this expansion, I don't see this new cast of characters being written any better. No matter whether they write the scions or not, if they don't wrestle back the ability to actually WRITE, nothing will work.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Especially jarring when you consider the fact that at the end of 6.0, the Scion is so self-aware of their influence that they impose a self-banned so that they don't inadvertently effect nation's politic.

Yet ironically, and idiotically in DT I think we have the most direct involvement in playing kingmaker then we ever did comparing to all other expansion.

Just another point to show that the new writing team did a horrible job in maintaining consistency in the story, like it's almost they don't care.

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I’ll be ok with it if they use that as a plot point in the future (like with the good old ARR politics).
Make it so our meddling in politics has consequences in some way.
Maybe growing tensions between two states and both come to us for help.

If not then yeah… we have almost all the leaders in the world on speed dial.

The most annoying thing is that the game repeatedly reminds us that the WoL does not really want to meddle in politics but it forces us anyway.
It doesn’t make any sense.

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Originally Posted by ArcturusWhisper

I think people should stop fixating on "they should let the scions go", which is a superficial issue. It's not the core problem. They are all our friends, if the devs have brains that allow them to write well, they can legitimately come adventuring with us if they like, since as you said they are "free people", why can't free people join us? And why can't they have new stories too? I mean the devs can choose not to, but that's not inevitable no matter what people claim. People who dislike these characters will like to not see them, that's totally understandable, but that's a separate issue. There are tons of characters I don't like seeing again, doesn't mean if the devs have chosen to they can't make more new stories for them, my taste notwithstanding.

The fundamental problem is that the devs no longer know how to write ANY characters and stories in a not "in-your-face" and superficial way. There are tons of new characters this expansion, I don't see this new cast of characters being written any better. No matter whether they write the scions or not, if they don't wrestle back the ability to actually WRITE, nothing will work.

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Exactly this. Without what little presence of good written scions (Estinien) there is in this expansion, it frankly falls completely apart. The scions are already barely there, but the new characters fail at being compelling. People need to stop calling for removal of scions when all we'll be left with is Wuk Lamat. Start calling for good writing instead. This goes for new and OLD characters, scions being poorly written is merely a symptom of a much bigger issue. And frankly this became crystal clear already during the Zero patches. Some scions were not there at all, some barely there, and only a few actually had a central role (which is perfectly fine on its own). But once again the newly introduced character simply didn't deliver.