The Monk Temple

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

ADS2 and Titan are both multi-part fights so FF14app may be accumulating the damage / DPS in unexpected ways.

You may have to increase whatever "out of combat interval" to like 10-15 seconds to ensure that Titan and Titan's Heart don't split the fight or DPS windows up into separate fights.

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That's likely the case, hence why I think it may have fixed ever since I changed the duration and reset conditions.

Don't know if these have been posted because I haven't read all 106 pages but I wanted to add monk macros that I use for combos:

Snap Punch Combo

/micon "Snap Punch"
/ac "Snap Punch" <t>
/ac "Snap Punch" <tt>
/ac "True Strike" <t>
/ac "True Strike" <tt>
/ac "Bootshine" <t>
/ac "Bootshine" <tt>
/ac "Mercy Stroke" <t>
/ac "Mercy Stroke" <tt>
/ac "Blood for Blood" <me>
/ac "Internal Release" <me>

Demolish:

/micon "Demolish"
/ac "Demolish" <t>
/ac "Demolish" <tt>
/ac "True Strike" <t>
/ac "True Strike" <tt>
/ac "Bootshine" <t>
/ac "Bootshine" <tt>
/ac "Blood for Blood" <me>
/ac "Mercy Stroke" <t>
/ac "Mercy Stroke" <tt>
/ac "Internal Release" <me>

Twin Snakes (Use this when you need to buff):

/micon "Twin Snakes"
/ac "Twin Snakes" <t>
/ac "Twin Snakes" <tt>
/ac "Internal Release" <me>
/ac "Blood for Blood" <me>
/ac "Mercy Stroke" <t>
/ac "Mercy Stroke" <tt>

AOE:

/micon "Arm of the Destroyer"
/ac "Rockbreaker" <t>
/ac "Rockbreaker" <tt>
/ac "Twin Snakes" <t>
/ac "Twin Snakes" <tt>
/ac "Arm of the Destroyer" <t>
/ac "Arm of the Destroyer" <tt>
/ac "Featherfoot" <me>
/ac "Mercy Stroke" <t>
/ac "Mercy Stroke" <tt>
/ac "Blood for Blood" <me>
/ac "Internal Release" <me>

Is Devastate supposed to be Dragon Kick?

EDIT: Nvm, that wouldn't make sense. So...what's devastate?

supposed to be demolish not devastate i fixed it.

I'll keep Dragon kick and One Ilm Yalm by themselves like Twin Snakes so I can sub them.

Why is MNK crits so inconsistent? My crits go from like 400-722.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

Why is MNK crits so inconsistent? My crits go from like 400-722.

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For the same attack?

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

For the same attack?

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Ya Snap Punch. Hell even all attacks.

Monks have a total of 84% in variable damage buffs. Some can be considered pretty static (GL3, FoF, Twin Snakes, Dragon Kick), but some are obviously on/off (BFB).

In addition, failed flanks will cause a 40/140 = 29% variance on Snap Punch if that's what you're looking at. In sum, it's not surprising to get a very wide range of damage on a Monk, although I'd only expect to see BFB and flanking variances in general. BFB and Flanking result in a damage range of: (1.2*180) / (1*140) - 1 = 54% variance.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Monks have a total of 84% in variable damage buffs. Some can be considered pretty static (GL3, FoF, Twin Snakes, Dragon Kick), but some are obviously on/off (BFB).

In addition, failed flanks will cause a 40/140 = 29% variance on Snap Punch if that's what you're looking at. In sum, it's not surprising to get a very wide range of damage on a Monk, although I'd only expect to see BFB and flanking variances in general. BFB and Flanking result in a damage range of: (1.2*180) / (1*140) - 1 = 54% variance.

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Without BFB/IR I get crazy Crits.

Can someone test the TP gain and possible dps loss with using True and without?

It doesn't matter what your skill speeed is (though please report it), but I want to see if realistically (well, dummy realistically) true is worth using in place of twin.

Please use the standard rotation (no cooldowns, no dragoon abilities aside from invig if you want), and use True strike whenever you will not use ToD in the next 12 seconds.

Then test again and see how quickly you run out of TP with using Twin all the time.

Can't you just find out via your simulator? It would be much more consistent than parses.

Well simulator is half broken atm, I would have to go back and set flags for TP again, and also people don't seem to trust it so I wanted to see what the parsers say.

Plus I'm in a holiday mood so any sort of work makes me cry.

It's ok, most people don't believe in my spreadsheet either ^_^.

GL is getting a buff and the damage from behind is getting a buff WOOT!

A6:
Monk:
The buff effect of “Greased Lightning” will be increased. In addition, the amount of bonus damage monks will be able to do from behind a target will be increased.

I kind of fail to see what logic goes into the conclusion that "Monks should deal more damage", lol.

I was hoping to see a twin snakes buff duration increase more than a greased lightning buff, to be honest :(

I always thought the tight duration of GL is what made the class so challenging and fun...although I guess technically they never flat out said they are increasing the duration.

Eh. Well, I guess now we are going to be even more of a solo target dps king...

Um...I'll take it!

Not sure we need it though. Once it's not something lame like increased duration (unless it's for Twin Snakes, that'd be fine).

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

I kind of fail to see what logic goes into the conclusion that "Monks should deal more damage", lol.

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Maybe it was in response to the majority bard parties used for coil. Idk, but I'm not complaining ^^

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Originally Posted by Arkista

GL is getting a buff and the damage from behind is getting a buff WOOT!

A6:
Monk:
The buff effect of “Greased Lightning” will be increased. In addition, the amount of bonus damage monks will be able to do from behind a target will be increased.

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Thats kinda vague. Does he mean dmg increase, speed increase, or durration increase. Or some mixture of all 3?

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Originally Posted by Amsai

Thats kinda vague. Does he mean dmg increase, speed increase, or durration increase. Or some mixture of all 3?

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Most likely duration increase, a full stack of 3 lasts what, 15-20 secs? i cant remember off the top of my head. A speed increase would make MNK too OP an non-mnks will QQ :x

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

I kind of fail to see what logic goes into the conclusion that "Monks should deal more damage", lol.

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High-intensity forum whining can move mountains, even if the mountains didn't need moving in the first place. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by rtpsoulx

Most likely duration increase, a full stack of 3 lasts what, 15-20 secs? i cant remember off the top of my head. A speed increase would make MNK too OP an non-mnks will QQ :x

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I don't get how you understand a duration increase from that answer. Both Rein's translation and now the official translation say the buff effect. This means either the damage increase, the speed increase, or both as being enhanced. The duration is not, else they would say the buff duration.

Now, I also don't know why they felt that buffing MNK further was ok, but I'm not about to complain about my main monopolizing the DPS market.

To be honest I started laughing really hard when they said they increase Melee DPS by 10% and went on with Monk buffs on top of that.
I mean sure I'll take that but I didn't really feel like we need that... We already top the dps charts with ease.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

Yep. Hopefully you can coincide it with a phase change or with PB being up.
I think it's possible to keep GL3 if the timing is just right.
Still probably the worst class, but you'd only really compare to dragoons since single target is its own niche.

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Kinda funny isn't it? Considering LB3 is Final Heaven and all...

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

I don't get how you understand a duration increase from that answer. Both Rein's translation and now the official translation say the buff effect. This means either the damage increase, the speed increase, or both as being enhanced. The duration is not, else they would say the buff duration.

Now, I also don't know why they felt that buffing MNK further was ok, but I'm not about to complain about my main monopolizing the DPS market.

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It looks like they are really buffing Drg and giving Mnk a little boost. Probably bring Drg really close to Mnk.

Also I think it is intended for DRG and MNK top single target dps and by a decent amount. Mnk already is (sort of.. see smn) and drg is lagging behind. Melee bring jack for supporting the group, our LB isn't really that much better than ranged LB, and on top of these we are very high risk since melee are much more likely to die than ranged.

Ranged bring better support, better AoE, and lower risk damage.

They also made melee far more complicated to play. Ask any good Brd or Blm how they play and you almost always get a laugh and a "I push a couple buttons over and over". Smn is only slightly better. Now try quickly explaining Drg and Mnk combat priorities/rotations... can't do it.

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Originally Posted by Rochetm

It looks like they are really buffing Drg and giving Mnk a little boost. Probably bring Drg really close to Mnk.

Also I think it is intended for DRG and MNK top single target dps and by a decent amount. Mnk already is (sort of.. see smn) and drg is lagging behind. Melee bring jack for supporting the group, our LB isn't really that much better than ranged LB, and on top of these we are very high risk since melee are much more likely to die than ranged.

Ranged bring better support, better AoE, and lower risk damage.

They also made melee far more complicated to play. Ask any good Brd or Blm how they play and you almost always get a laugh and a "I push a couple buttons over and over". Smn is only slightly better. Now try quickly explaining Drg and Mnk combat priorities/rotations... can't do it.

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So maybe melee is meant to blow everyone else out the water for single target?
I guess that could be the case. SMN and BLM aoe is pretty amazing.
With these changes it'll be like this

MNK - Super high single target, relatively low aoe
DRG - Great single target, great aoe
SMN - Great single target great aoe (well multi-target)
BLM - Relatively low single target, Super high AoE
BRD - ?????

Anyway, ignoring the red headed step child we'll keep bringing to the family dinners (brds), I may be able to see some balance in this. Monks will be as good as at single target relatively to other classes as BLM is at AOE relatively. DRGs may be brought close to summoner (i.e. around where monk is now).
I can see some overall class balance there.

However, most endgame is boss fights so BLM might get the shaft 9 times out of 10. Can't really tell until it goes live. They also mentioned helping the usefulness of the BLM job skills which may change things anyway.

This is the only way I can reason the buff.

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Originally Posted by Arale

^ Since when does BLM have low single target damage? I destroy or match most other DPS on single target fights as my BLM, even ones who have more ilvl90 pieces then I do.

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As you should be. I've reached my daily cap.

So without extending the post too long -
This is for post-2.1 melee buffs. It is just a theory on how class power may be after the buffs, but I think it may be the reasoning behind the buffs.

^ Since when does BLM have low single target damage? I destroy or match most other DPS on single target fights as my BLM, even ones who have more ilvl90 pieces then I do.

Stop the Blm talk this is monk temple.

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Originally Posted by Arale

^ Since when does BLM have low single target damage? I destroy or match most other DPS on single target fights as my BLM, even ones who have more ilvl90 pieces then I do.

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BLMs do great DMG. I for welcome the buff to mnk. The two places that it really sucks to be a melee is Turn 2 on ADS and Turn 4, BRD BLM SMN has it made.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

BLMs do great DMG. I for welcome the buff to mnk. The two places that it really sucks to be a melee is Turn 2 on ADS and Turn 4, BRD BLM SMN has it made.

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It's not as bad as people make it out to be in turn 2 and 4. It's more challenging, sure, but in the hands of a capable player it still translates to the MNK harnessing most of its DPS and still pulling ahead enough to be worth it.

That being said, I understand that the disparity in difficulty isn't worth it for a lot of players for the DPS gain unless it's quite significant, which will pretty much be the case after the buffs to both DRG and MNK.

Turn 2 and 4 are not hard at all for monks, in fact it's so boring in turn 2 that I go on silence duty since I have to hold back with DPS anyway.
Moving away in here and there really isn't all that difficult and not that much of a DPS loss if you're doing that while attacking besides in those fights you have to watch your aggro anyway.
Of course the learning curve is higher for melees but once we know our stuff it's the same as always.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

It's not as bad as people make it out to be in turn 2 and 4. It's more challenging, sure, but in the hands of a capable player it still translates to the MNK harnessing most of its DPS and still pulling ahead enough to be worth it.

That being said, I understand that the disparity in difficulty isn't worth it for a lot of players for the DPS gain unless it's quite significant, which will pretty much be the case after the buffs to both DRG and MNK.

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I know there are different strats for turn 4, but I can't imagine any where a monk is on top of a BLM. That's in term of the dps meter though, the number padding from adds is just too much if you've got a BLM that knows what they're doing. Monks, however, excel at taking down the dreadnaughts and are no less valuable for the fight.
Challenge? Honestly, I've found Turn 4 to be a tank and healer fight. Maybe this comes down to strat as well, but there's little challenge being a monk OR a blm in turn 4. At least how we do it.

Turn 2 is not bad. I've done it as a BLM too and I started wishing I was on my monk. Why? It's so boring, not sure how range can stand it. Only Ballast really bothers me, but it's not something I would complain about. Rather that than dying of boredom!
And yea, you can top dps as a monk on that fight as well.

guys a quick question.

First of all, my gear:
Relic+1, full DL with 4 Hero accessories (Belt, Earrings, Ring, Chocker).

At Caduceus I did 68K damage from a friend's parser. How is that with respect to my gear? I use DoT a lot (try to keep Fracture, Touch of Death and Demolish), do they count on parser?

My rotation: [Always at Flank] Dragon Kick -> Twin Snakes -> Snap Punch 3 times and then Dragon Kick -> Twin Snakes -> Demolish -> Fracture -> Touch of Death once


Thank you very much for any suggestion to make my play style better =)


EDIT: Of course I use Internal Release, Blood for Blood and Perfect Balance when I have the chance to.

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Originally Posted by Atreides

To be honest I started laughing really hard when they said they increase Melee DPS by 10% and went on with Monk buffs on top of that.
I mean sure I'll take that but I didn't really feel like we need that... We already top the dps charts with ease.

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Same here, laughter was my reaction to the news as well!

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

Challenge? Honestly, I've found Turn 4 to be a tank and healer fight. Maybe this comes down to strat as well, but there's little challenge being a monk OR a blm in turn 4. At least how we do it.

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For me the hardest thing was figuring out the best way to spread my DPS out on the Knights and Soldiers with our group makeup--specifically, how to not lose GL3 when trying to break the Stoneskins in a group where I'm the only mDPS and we normally have 2 BRDs. I agree that T4 is mostly a tank fights (positioning) but it also demands your DPS know how to pace themselves.

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Originally Posted by Guevara

Thank you very much for any suggestion to make my play style better =)

EDIT: Of course I use Internal Release, Blood for Blood and Perfect Balance when I have the chance to.

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Thoughts:
1) Don't stay on flank. Whenever IR is up, you can flank DK since it crits better than Bootshine, but when it's down, rotate BS and DK. Moving behind Caduceus triggers tail whip (which you can easily dodge) which causes him to stop attacking the tank for a moment which is another good reason to go behind him during your rotation.
2) Don't use Perfect Balance "when you have the chance to" but when you need to. Personally, I always save it for the split since that's when I have the best chance of actually losing GL due to repositioning/evading. If I don't lose GL during split, well, that's great; it's not like you really need to open with PB on that fight, anyway.
3) If you find yourself TP-starved, drop Fracture from rotation for a while.

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Originally Posted by Mishaela

Thoughts:
1) Don't stay on flank. Whenever IR is up, you can flank DK since it crits better than Bootshine, but when it's down, rotate BS and DK. Moving behind Caduceus triggers tail whip (which you can easily dodge) which causes him to stop attacking the tank for a moment which is another good reason to go behind him during your rotation.
2) Don't use Perfect Balance "when you have the chance to" but when you need to. Personally, I always save it for the split since that's when I have the best chance of actually losing GL due to repositioning/evading. If I don't lose GL during split, well, that's great; it's not like you really need to open with PB on that fight, anyway.

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Yeah I did not go too much in detail about PB. I use it once at the beginning of Phase 1 and then wait ofr the Split before to use it again.

Anyway, thanks for the BS tip =)

I am just worried for latency not to be able to dodge tail wip in time =/ Will try.

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Originally Posted by Guevara

I am just worried for latency not to be able to dodge tail wip in time =/ Will try.

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It's the same thing as like the last boss of AK, except small hit area and this time it is quite quick and it will 1-shot you if you have Blood for Blood active. :D It's really easy to dodge and the attack has like a 15-18 second cooldown. What I do is just run through him or step in for a split second while on GCD after a flank skill to see if I can trigger the attack. If I do, then I just step out of it then I know I have at least a good 2 full rotations where I can hit from its rear and be completely safe (even with BfB up). After two rotations, dance in and out (or you can run through the rear of his hitbox to his other flank) until you trigger it again, repeat.

As a general rule, if you are using something like Snap Punch -> Bootshine, there is 0 reason to move behind the boss immediately after SP, idle two seconds, then hit BS.

Instead, stay on the side until a moment before the BS, then move to the rear, BS, then move away. That should also be enough time to step back and True Strike as well.

very useful tips. thank you very much!

A part from rotation, how good/bad is 68K of damage on Caduceus?