Gender locked race?

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Highlanders are arguably better looking than Roe and they're still unpopular.

The most popular males in the west are hyu (midlander) > miqo > au ra (xaela)
The most popular males in the east are lala > miqo > hyur (midlander)
cute-to-handsome = fanta sales

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I'd love to see a reliable source that breaks down hyur population by highlander and midlander.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

As opposed to a race of human looking people with animal ears that live in a forest matriarchy? People go on about how similar viera lore is to miqote, and they physically look not much different than what we already have, but then say another cat themed race that could actually look drastically different is too similar?

I just don't get it. Sounds like double standards to me.

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Are you serious? Or just having a laugh? They look drastically different. As for lore - beyond the fact they are matriarchal and that the males have a lesser birthrate. That. Is. It. What other connections are they? In fact, if we're going into that argument then every single race is just an offshoot of Hyur. Makes sense doesn't it since in FF that's the whole plot that all of the 'Humanoids' beyond the beast tribes used to be one single race.

Yes, another cat race is idiotic when such a thing could be added into the CC in regards to manes and muscle/height slider. If there only difference is going to be they're going to have fur on their bodies and be 'buffer' then really, what's the point. When they could have added Lupin or another beast race?

What lore are they going to add which would have it where only the males will be seen and not the females?

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

I'd love to see a reliable source that breaks down hyur population by highlander and midlander.

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Luckybancho bruh. I thought you were done here.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

So why men only get the more bestial race females can be too just the same as men can be cute that is backassward thinking

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Because japanese games, japanese player base, love of waifu. You're welcome.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

I'd love to see a reliable source that breaks down hyur population by highlander and midlander.

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Lucky bancho server readings breaks down every servers population by race and clan using the lodestone. Xaela are consistently more popular than Raen. Midlanders are consistently more popular than Highlanders...and most male races.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Because historically female beast like characters are criminally underplayed in MMOs. We don't even have one in ffxiv but anyone can see the severe lack of female roegadyn and highlander characters.

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Severe lack? I run into females of these races on a daily basis. We need to have this option open for people who want to go into it. In WoW half of the available races are beast-like, and people still play females because that's just what they're into.

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

Are you serious? Or just having a laugh? They look drastically different.

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Lol if you say so. Still absolutely a double standard thay viera are different enough despite many visual similarities, but a vague concept with no visuals is immediately too similar because they might share a cat motif.

By that logic, all the races are too similar because they all share a base human motif (with lalafell being the most different).

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Yes, another cat race is idiotic when such a thing could be added into the CC in regards to manes and muscle/height slider.

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Again, all this applies to Viera as well, their bunny ears and faces could have been added to miqote, hyur, and elezen customization easily. You are absolutely applying a double standard here.

Muscle sliders have never added actual muscle mass in this game, so that would be an entirely new system they'd have to develop.

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f there only difference is going to be they're going to have fur on their bodies and be 'buffer' then really, what's the point. When they could have added Lupin?

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Because Lupin have a head and face anatomy that's entirely incompatible with the gear and cutscenes/emotes systems.

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What lore are they going to add which would have it where only the males will be seen and not the females?

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Oh I don't know, there's quite literally millions of examples. They could go the FFXI route and have the race reproduce via reincarnation. They could be artificial constructs brought to life through some old ritual. They could be a group of biologically engineered allagan chimera that have no gender and can't reproduce outside of allagan incubation chambers. They could be a race that has no biological females and need to either have children with other races or use some kind of magic to create offspring.

There are countless angles they could go.
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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Again, all this applies to Viera as well, their bunny ears and faces could have been added to miqote, hyur, and elezen customization easily. You are absolutely applying a double standard here.

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Miquote are explicitly stated to be descended from Mithra in FFXIV. Bunny ears on them contradicts this lore. There's no need to merge them with Viera when they have such drastically different background stories surrounding them.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Because Lupin have a head and face anatomy that's entirely incompatible with the gear and cutscenes/emotes systems.

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So would a bara cat race or Ronso.

Those statistics you posted were insightful; I knew Roe was pretty bad in regards to the population but I didn't realise they were that abysmal. Elves need love as well it seems.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

And a bara race would be the best use of resources? When the bara race that currently exists in game has the lowest population of all the playable races across all DCs?
:confused:

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"Alright Yoshi-P, our latest expansion is coming up and we need to work on our race. What do you propose? Bear in mind all the work and resources that go into making a race."
"People have wanted Viera for years right? I think it's finally time we gave our fans what they want."
"Okay, sounds good. We can ju-"
"But cut them in half."
"What?"
"Yeah, just like, don't make the men."
"But for what reason?"
"Surely there's nobody who wants to play as a male rabbit right? We should put our resources into things people actually want, like more Eureka. Also I made an offhand statement like five years ago saying I thought they were cute. I need to keep up appearances you know."
"Well, alright... But what about the people who play male characters? Surely they'd want something? You know how well the gender-locks went last time we tried that."
"How about we just pull a random race from an old game and slap it on? People love nostalgia."
"Okay that sounds reasonable. Any ideas?"
"I dunno. Let's just do Ronso."
"You mean the buff cat people? Who resemble a race we already have that's barely used?"
"Yeah sure. People love cats. It's not like we have any other ideas for males right? Also let's keep our fans in suspense and announce the genderlock in the one community that doesn't like muscular races."

The bara cat was from the discord wasn't it? I feel that one might just be a lucky guess... or that they're really going to make Blue Mage an advanced job lol (??!). Just on the arguments going on right now though, imo, if they had something Ronso-like (say Ronso without the horn or something) I'd argue that's far more unique to the game in options than Viera.. /shrug (I'd personally love to take a 1:1 ronso port though ;)). Also admittedly even though I say that I have to believe Viera would/will be far more popular lol.

Not a huge fan of the argument about what's going to be most popular is what should be designed though, since I think having weird races (like WoW or GW2, etc, etc) adds a visual palate variety to the pretty and cute. Right now it's like Roe for the visual disruption but even the males can get pretty fabulous, imo SE is using too much of the same color if we talked about races as a painting. It's all saturated variations of cute, sexy, and masculine sexy (imo). So not a huge fan of "it wont be popular so it shouldn't be made (or should be)". Partly why when people asked for Viera I was like "please something weird first" because I am and was worried that SE is going to be done with races. Now that we're here though the best outcome would be, imo, either lion-like Viera males as an option (even if it's just one subrace), or two complete races where we get ronso-lion-like (not Rev lol) males and females too.

Also we have a cat in game called Baras btw, just wanted to show that:
https://i.imgur.com/L5JwDTT.jpg

Because we have a cat race is why I'm hoping it's more "ronso" than just hairy tall miqote lol. Although perhaps my imagination isn't playing out very well and it'll be awesome (or it's fake news hahaha and there is no lion-viera and no lion-race).

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Originally Posted by Tabbs

I thought you were done here.

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https://media.giphy.com/media/qvRjLOs2SVPsk/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Lucky bancho server readings breaks down every servers population by race and clan using the lodestone. Xaela are consistently more popular than Raen. Midlanders are consistently more popular than Highlanders...and most male races.

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Thank you, I had never seen the other bits of lucky bancho on each servers breakdown, was only aware of the most commonly released breakdowns of current overall populations etc.

Still, upon looking at this info, male highlander are certainly far from being underplayed, with many servers having them at a healthy population or competitive population with other populated males.

There's also a lot of complaints about highlanders regarding their faces that would likely see an uptick in population if they were given some customization attention (eyebrows being a big complaint).

I could easily see them taking miqote males and mashing them with highlander/au ra to make a new race that would undoubtedly be successful. Of course they could do the same with Viera male as well.

Give them all to us:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyhfdvcX4AIKWuh.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dy6sS9fXgAEzdD-.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DybAoZpXgAUxust.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyhEvNWU8AEK8bL.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DygEMuEWwAEYhE_.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyftfRCXgAA2ANZ.png

https://66.media.tumblr.com/519c57a5...pdao1_1280.jpg

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

Miquote are explicitly stated to be descended from Mithra in FFXIV. Bunny ears on them contradicts this lore. There's no need to merge them with Viera when they have such drastically different background stories surrounding them.

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Flavor text on the Mithra minion saying it's a "supposed" ancestor of miqote is not a confirmation they actually are, especially with how many times the lore heads have stated that not all the information and lore you are given is accurate and that's intentional. Even then, there's no stopping new lore from being created such as "this group of miqote became in tuned with the woods, the hearing the green word over centuries has caused a magical change in them and altered their physical appearance."

New lore can always be created to hand wave away a ton of shit. It happens all the time.

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So would a bara cat race or Ronso.

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Factually untrue. Lupin have almost entirely canine faces, incapale of easily being emotive and expressive with the same system used for the other player races without a ton of new work. I've literally posted an example of a cat like race from another game that has a most human face that would absolutely be able to emote like the other player races. Even rhonso could as their faces are again, mostly human. They also have mostly human shaped heads, unlike Lupin.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Factually untrue. Lupin have almost entirely canine faces, incapale of easily being emotive and expressive with the same system used for the other player races without a ton of new work. I've literally posted an example of a cat like race from another game that has a most human face that would absolutely be able to emote like the other player races. Even rhonso could as their faces are again, mostly human. They also have mostly human shaped heads, unlike Lupin.

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That still didn't stop the Ronso in FFX from having little to no facial expressions at all. The only way they got around that was by constantly rotating the camera around them, like in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzweI3qCzwU and even then his attempt at a "smile" is nothing more than the peak of his mouth opening animation. Just because their general shape might be humanoid doesn't mean that it'll be easy or even possible to create all of the facial expressions in FFXIV without some of them being repeated. Human looking faces can be played with extensively, but that isn't the case with animal faces unless their muzzle is removed and replaced with more human characteristics.

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

That still didn't stop the Ronso in FFX from having little to no facial expressions at all. The only way they got around that was by constantly rotating the camera around them, like in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzweI3qCzwU and even then his attempt at a "smile" is nothing more than the peak of his mouth opening animation. Just because their general shape might be humanoid doesn't mean that it'll be easy or even possible to create all of the facial expressions in FFXIV without some of them being repeated. Human looking faces can be played with extensively, but that isn't the case with animal faces unless their muzzle is removed and replaced with more human characteristics.

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To be fair Ronso in FFX are probably meant to be very limited in facial animations - stuck on I'm upset and hungry haha (lore wise it makes sense, especially for Kimahri). I doubt SE can't make an emotive lion, they just chose not to. Not that the other characters in that game have ground breaking emotes either lol (it's an old game, it's okay hehe - their cutscenes are pretty emotive though).

Or in other words we've seen incredibly emotive animals animated in movies, showing the full range of expression, and sometimes they're literally animals not even anthropomorphized. I believe SE could emote a Ronso :p.

Although they might try to further humanize the face like BLESS Lupus..:
http://mmoculture.com/wp-content/upl...ion-race-3.jpg

Personally I think that the above would be an awesome third subrace for Miqote, and they should go further wild for another full on race (ronso-like). Although I'd probably change my race if it was more like the above, I greatly prefer the animal noses and fuzz of FFXI over the pretty human miqote.

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

That still didn't stop the Ronso in FFX from having little to no facial expressions at all.

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Are you seriously trying to argue that an npc race in an 18 year old ps2 game didn't have complex facial rigging as an argument to support that they could never have one now? Are you really that insane?

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Human looking faces can be played with extensively, but that isn't the case with animal faces unless their muzzle is removed and replaced with more human characteristics.

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Thats the entire point. They wouldn't have animal faces, they would still have mostly human faces but potentially more animal like characteristics. Again, I posted a literal perfect example with Bless Online's Pantera race.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1iSbBNnK0CU/maxresdefault.jpg

This is far different than miqote, yet still absolutely human enough to still do the full range of emotes and facial expressions our player characters can do and can still fit into all the helmets without completely needing to reshape them or remodel them.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Because historically female beast like characters are criminally underplayed in MMOs. We don't even have one in ffxiv but anyone can see the severe lack of female roegadyn and highlander characters.

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Underplayed from the developer's perspective, perhaps, but players aren't really obliged to like what they offer.

As for highlander females, I'd consider them to be athletic but still cutesy. Where they suffer, IMO, is their animations are not as smooth as some of the other races' females.

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

That still doesn't stop a large amount of gay bara enthusiasts from playing as roegadyn. Beauty and what makes people attractive varies from person to person, and from the looks of it roegadyn fulfill a lot of the criteria that group is looking for. There's lots of roegadyn fanart all over the internet, and their Hellsguard variant has an animal nose that when coupled with different ears can pretty much look like any animal. This group likely doesn't want to see more "twink" males, but bears/stocky guys tend to throw anyone who is smaller than them into that category, so there's no set limit for what makes a twink. Ideally we need a race with a medium/strong build that doesn't go into either extreme.

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Yeah, I sometimes get surprised by what people choose to label a "twink".

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

Give them all to us:

*gallery of hot bunny men*

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Yes, especially 1 and 4.

On the topic of muscle sliders adding mass, I'd kill for that, since I'd love to be able to add some bulk to my midlander toons, to better approximate the WoL in the cinematics/art, however it is a lot of work and probably won't happen until a graphics overhaul, and even then it may not happen.

I'd love to play something along the lines of a beefier Miqo'te!

Another beefy race in general would be appreciated. Roegadyn don't interest me since they're too big. Highlander men also have the unfortunate situation with their eyebrows in dire need of addressing, which doesn't appear to be a plan anytime soon.

Although perhaps not the most original approach they could take, they could opt for a face similar to Byakko's:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20180204094002

I actually like Byakko's body type and facial structure. I would actually find this very much acceptable, in regards to both Viera and Bara Cat.

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Pffft, what if Bara cat is just a joke - it's actually fat cat mount.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'd love to play something along the lines of a beefier Miqo'te!

Another beefy race in general would be appreciated. Roegadyn don't interest me since they're too big. Highlander men also have the unfortunate situation with their eyebrows in dire need of addressing, which doesn't appear to be a plan anytime soon.

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Ugh, those eyebrows.... and the facepaint eyebrows are just creepy and huge.

I agree, the game does need another more muscular race regardless of how they implement it. Only two options for muscular while there exist 4 for slim plus lalafels is a bit imbalanced.

There's 3 if you count au ra, which I do. However, we could do with a muscle tone slider.

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

I actually like Byakko's body type and facial structure. I would actually find this very much acceptable, in regards to both Viera and Bara Cat.

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Pffft, what if Bara cat is just a joke - it's actually fat cat mount.

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https://i.imgflip.com/2thyo2.jpg

SE saw Blizzard's panda race and was like "I want in on that fat animal magic". ;)

If Bara cat was like the Lupus/Pantera of Bless or our Byakko I'd be alright with that. I think the problem is the word Bara means something and since I'm not... into that.. all the google results just look one step away from needing to be put behind an age gate lol. Wonder if given some hair mane options and a glamour helmet horn if you could make a cat like that look like a Ronso lol.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

There's 3 if you count au ra, which I do. However, we could do with a muscle tone slider.

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I've had this conversation before, and I vehemently disagree that the Au Ra are a muscular race. They have broad shoulders, sure, but they have tiny little corseted waists, and thin legs and arms, they're closer to the build of the elezen than to either of the two other muscular builds, at least from my perspective.

Edit: Also the Au Ra, I thought, DO have a muscle slider. I'm pretty sure every race does. It just doesn't get very ripped when you max it out....

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

I could easily see them taking miqote males and mashing them with highlander/au ra to make a new race that would undoubtedly be successful. Of course they could do the same with Viera male as well.

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That looks back around to my point of “why make a second race?”. The old concept art was already a muscular rabbit man.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

I've had this conversation before, and I vehemently disagree that the Au Ra are a muscular race. They have broad shoulders, sure, but they have tiny little corseted waists, and thin legs and arms, they're closer to the build of the elezen than to either of the two other muscular builds, at least from my perspective.

Edit: Also the Au Ra, I thought, DO have a muscle slider. I'm pretty sure every race does. It just doesn't get very ripped when you max it out....

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Naw, only the hyur have it.

I'm going to disagree on the au ra. Their arms and legs are buff. No idea what you'd be comparing them to to come to the conclusion that their arms or legs are thin. I mean you can even take a measuring tape to their arms and legs on the screen. They're almost identical to (a little bigger than) highlander males in the size of their arms and legs. The toning is just less intense.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Naw, only the hyur have it.

I'm going to disagree on the au ra. Their arms and legs are buff. No idea what you'd be comparing them to to come to the conclusion that their arms or legs are thin. I mean you can even take a measuring tape to their arms and legs on the screen. They're almost identical to (a little bigger than) highlander males in the size of their arms and legs. The toning is just less intense.

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Roes 100% have a muscle slider.

And it might be related to their height and their waists. They just look incredibly spindly to me, and there are others who agree. But there are others who agree with your perception of them, so it's probably just how you personally view them. Safe to say they're a middle ground between the really buff looking races and the more slender looking ones.

Well, hyur and roegadyn, then. It's absent on the other races.

And yes, their body shape probably plays a part in it, in that it's more heavily V-shaped.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Lucky bancho server readings breaks down every servers population by race and clan using the lodestone. Xaela are consistently more popular than Raen. Midlanders are consistently more popular than Highlanders...and most male races.

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Is there a link to these in English? I've only come across it on Reddit but it the source materials are in Japanese.

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Originally Posted by RoroCookies

Because characters like this:
https://c-7npsfqifvt0x24hbnfqfejbx2e...a=1&i10c.dv=21

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Oh. My. God.

Im in love.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Is there a link to these in English? I've only come across it on Reddit but it the source materials are in Japanese.

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I just use chrome's translate feature on the individual server pages.

and to elaborate on this post

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Originally Posted by Rokke

The old concept art was already a muscular rabbit man.

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http://i67.tinypic.com/2941gzc.jpg
this concept art is the one I'm talking about. They had a similar build to Au Ra dudes.

Good idea, thanks.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

this concept art is the one I'm talking about. They had a similar build to Au Ra dudes.

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I dare say they're bulkier. Maybe somewhere between male Au Ra and Roe, with a potential height sacrifice. But even if they're taller I'd be cool with that

I do like the direction of the art a lot.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Well, hyur and roegadyn, then. It's absent on the other races.

And yes, their body shape probably plays a part in it, in that it's more heavily V-shaped.



Is there a link to these in English? I've only come across it on Reddit but it the source materials are in Japanese.

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I'm pretty sure every race has a muscle slider, but on every race it doesn't actually make the muscles bigger, it just adds muscle tone. Some races it might be absent, like lalas, but I know seem to remember seeing it on miquotes and midlanders too. I'd have to tinker in the character creator again to know for sure.... Though on that note, it would be nice if the muscle slider actually added bulk and another slider for tone to give people the option of playing a more muscular or lean version of other races.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

I'm pretty sure every race has a muscle slider, but on every race it doesn't actually make the muscles bigger, it just adds muscle tone. Some races it might be absent, like lalas, but I know seem to remember seeing it on miquotes and midlanders too. I'd have to tinker in the character creator again to know for sure.... Though on that note, it would be nice if the muscle slider actually added bulk and another slider for tone to give people the option of playing a more muscular or lean version of other races.

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Miqo + Au Ra have tail length sliders and Elezen + Lala have ear length sliders. Roes + Hyurs do not have tails or long ears so they get muscle sliders instead.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

I'm pretty sure every race has a muscle slider, but on every race it doesn't actually make the muscles bigger, it just adds muscle tone. Some races it might be absent, like lalas, but I know seem to remember seeing it on miquotes and midlanders too. I'd have to tinker in the character creator again to know for sure.... Though on that note, it would be nice if the muscle slider actually added bulk and another slider for tone to give people the option of playing a more muscular or lean version of other races.

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You'll see when you try editing the characters. Anyway I agree on the second point, but I think it will coincide with any future graphics update, if at all.

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Originally Posted by Skos

These look like Hyur with bunny ears. Yikes.
Very bland and uninspired if you ask me.

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That's been my major beef with Viera as a whole. I'm so sick and tired of every race just looking like Hyur with X thing.

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Originally Posted by Rhysati

That's been my major beef with Viera as a whole. I'm so sick and tired of every race just looking like Hyur with X thing.

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You expected Vieras to look different than Vieras ?

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Originally Posted by Kupocoubo

You expected Vieras to look different than Vieras ?

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I think they mean playable races in general, which is something I can agree with being annoying.

Au Ra females = Miqo'te. Au Ra males = Elezen. Viera = Elezen. Original five playable races = FFXI reskins... with some being downgrades.