How to Dragoon Per Second: A DPS Paradigm

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Originally Posted by Tetsuya

Regarding our Rotations, the Advanced Rotation does more DPS than the Basic one I assume?

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Yes it does. The advance rotation timer is a lot stricter whereas the basic gives you a little bit of breathing space. There's also the old filler rotation that you will do whenever BoTD is down.

So save 2 weeks worth of Esoterics for Brontiac before anything else?

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Originally Posted by bj0rN

Oops! Realised that I posted the wrong link. Here's the correct one with Black Truffle as food. 580 Accuracy only though (which can probably only let us meet A1's accuracy requirements)

But yeah I gotta agree that Auirily's set is probably the optimal one for 625 SKS. ( http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/QZTK )

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Accuracy is 590 for A1S, you need to hit in front when adds spwan.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

So save 2 weeks worth of Esoterics for Brontiac before anything else?

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Two weeks and then some. 990 Eso needed.

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Originally Posted by Tilgung

Two weeks and then some. 990 Eso needed.

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Basically you'll get it by the 3rd week. But yeah I don't think most of us here will get our Gordian weapon soon so buying the Brionac to help for progression is a really good deal. Weapons always comes first.

First of all, a gratitude is in order into making this lab for us dragoons, and it also serves as training ground for us.

I just thought I should drop by and say my greetings since I'm a newgoon. Currently progressing to 60 to get those law gears and do hard raids.

EDIT:

Also a question I might wanna ask to those with more experience in dungeons, you WILL encounter a group of foes numbering 2, 3, or 4.

I usually pick one that's not so hard to kill and not too easy to die and hits quite hard just so my DoTs stack will work with maximum efficacy.

Question is, what do I do after the said enemy dies? Almost in every situation, all the other enemies are at half-hp more or less. Do I restart my rotation right from the heavy > IDC4, or just heavy > TTT4 ?

I know the rotation in the first post is aimed towards mid-long battle where keeping up the DPS is important, but... I find this bugging me, especially since I just cleared Ravana and the group needs to clear butterflies fast, otherwise partywipe.

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Originally Posted by Greyfrost

Question is, what do I do after the said enemy dies? Almost in every situation, all the other enemies are at half-hp more or less. Do I restart my rotation right from the heavy > IDC4, or just heavy > TTT4 ?

I know the rotation in the first post is aimed towards mid-long battle where keeping up the DPS is important, but... I find this bugging me, especially since I just cleared Ravana and the group needs to clear butterflies fast, otherwise partywipe.

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If the remaining adds are pretty much half dead then I would suggest that you can just do HT>TTT4.

I'm pretty greedy sometimes so I'll just do the HT>IDC4 on the boss when it's at that part of the rotation and then I'll resume back the TTT4 part at the adds.

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Originally Posted by Greyfrost

First of all, a gratitude is in order into making this lab for us dragoons, and it also serves as training ground for us.

I just thought I should drop by and say my greetings since I'm a newgoon. Currently progressing to 60 to get those law gears and do hard raids.

EDIT:

Also a question I might wanna ask to those with more experience in dungeons, you WILL encounter a group of foes numbering 2, 3, or 4.

I usually pick one that's not so hard to kill and not too easy to die and hits quite hard just so my DoTs stack will work with maximum efficacy.

Question is, what do I do after the said enemy dies? Almost in every situation, all the other enemies are at half-hp more or less. Do I restart my rotation right from the heavy > IDC4, or just heavy > TTT4 ?

I know the rotation in the first post is aimed towards mid-long battle where keeping up the DPS is important, but... I find this bugging me, especially since I just cleared Ravana and the group needs to clear butterflies fast, otherwise partywipe.

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Been leveling up myself, should get Wheeling tonight and the real fun begins lol. Multi-dotting mobs is still effective, HT-IDC4-P then IDC on the next mob, sometimes I'll switch back to the first for 4th and HT-RoT (if at least 3 mobs) IDC 3rd mob, again can hit whichever with 4th, Pleb. Etc. after all that I just TTT4 until they're dead, or if they are all low finish them off with Doomspike. For 4 or more enemies I just AoE, HT-RoT and Doomspike spam. Still playing around with things but really enjoying the BotD mechanic so far

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Originally Posted by Greyfrost

EDIT:

Also a question I might wanna ask to those with more experience in dungeons, you WILL encounter a group of foes numbering 2, 3, or 4.

I usually pick one that's not so hard to kill and not too easy to die and hits quite hard just so my DoTs stack will work with maximum efficacy.

Question is, what do I do after the said enemy dies? Almost in every situation, all the other enemies are at half-hp more or less. Do I restart my rotation right from the heavy > IDC4, or just heavy > TTT4 ?

I know the rotation in the first post is aimed towards mid-long battle where keeping up the DPS is important, but... I find this bugging me, especially since I just cleared Ravana and the group needs to clear butterflies fast, otherwise partywipe.

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Thendiel's 2.XX "How to Train your Dragoon" guide had good information on "what do I use if an enemy is about to die in 1-4 hits?". ID-Dis gives us our highest potency in two hits (if I remember the guide correctly) and is something I use often. I think that is the highest potency 2 GCD hit even if HT and Ph are down.

I think the short answer is, if you think the enemy is going to still be standing at least 2 GCDs after you use a 4 step combo, use IDC4.

I regularly do ID on a low health mob, switch to higher health mob for Dis-CT, back to first mob for 4th, then back to second mob for Ph, then finish off the low health mob if its still standing.

WOW! This gear creep is unbelievable. At full i120 "bis" we'll be averaging 20% CRT and a crit multiplier of 1.558. That's basically 2.2 levels of crit.

We gained 300 crit approximately from a 30 ilvl jump (i180-i210).

So if there's a similar trend of 300+ per 30 ilvls, I'll guesstimate +600 at the end of the expansion (3.4)...

34% Crit Chance with a multiplier of 1.6987... That's scary if they follow this 300 Crit jump per patch...

DS sucks in these new expert dungeons as of right now. Mostly because we arent as overgeared for it as we were for expert in 2.x yet. I can spam DS for 1000 TP and invigorate and still only have taken out about 30-40% of the hoard's HP pool, then I'm effectively neutered for quite a while. I'd rather'd IDC/TTT with georskoguls thrown in the mix, otherwise you'll have nothing for the next round of adds. I'm hopeful they will scale Doom Spike's damage at some point or reduce it's TP cost, but if nerfing Holy/Flare is any indication, likely not.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

WOW! This gear creep is unbelievable. At full i120 "bis" we'll be averaging 20% CRT and a crit multiplier of 1.558. That's basically 2.2 levels of crit.

We gained 300 crit approximately from a 30 ilvl jump (i180-i210).

So if there's a similar trend of 300+ per 30 ilvls, I'll guesstimate +600 at the end of the expansion (3.4)...

34% Crit Chance with a multiplier of 1.6987... That's scary if they follow this 300 Crit jump per patch...

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I'm hoping they don't go too crazy for the sake of longevity. Wouldn't want to have to do a stat squish like WoW needed in their recent expansion.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

DS sucks in these new expert dungeons as of right now. Mostly because we arent as overgeared for it as we were for expert in 2.x yet. I can spam DS for 1000 TP and invigorate and still only have taken out about 30-40% of the hoard's HP pool, then I'm effectively neutered for quite a while. I'd rather'd IDC/TTT with georskoguls thrown in the mix, otherwise you'll have nothing for the next round of adds. I'm hopeful they will scale Doom Spike's damage at some point or reduce it's TP cost, but if nerfing Holy/Flare is any indication, likely not.

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I've mainly had issues when the other DPS's AoE isn't up to snuff, otherwise after i've used my invigorate, I stop my AoE when i get to about 400 tp and then resume ST on the mobs remaining.

I'm still annoyed by the BRDs and MCHs that don't know how (or refuse) to use their TP regen though; at least after an AoE intensive group between pulls would be nice.

**Snipped**

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Originally Posted by ShiroSteve

Dervy mind if I ask what your Ilvl and buff status was on the parses on page 103? Food, party, pot etc. Just trying to sort out where I'm sitting in comparison.

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put your stats into the sim, it will give you a very accurate dummy dps to aim for.

edit: turn off pots if you don't want to use pots, etc.

Hey everyone! I just wanted to pop by and show gratitude for this thread, and it's predecessor, for inspiring me to stay as a dragoon main. :)

Any major tips for controller users? There are so many skills controller makes it hard to keep track of. What I have taken to doing is abusing cross hotbars for double weaving:
L2+left=he
L2+R2+left=bfb
R2+left=bl

Rinse and repeat for the other directions. Also potions on my server are expensive af. ; w; any alternative or am I sol? Lol

What is everybody's best parse so far on Faust? I just did 1448 which I was pretty happy with.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Any major tips for controller users? There are so many skills controller makes it hard to keep track of. What I have taken to doing is abusing cross hotbars for double weaving:
snipperoo
Also potions on my server are expensive af. ; w; any alternative or am I sol? Lol

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Abusing crossbars is where it's at. I have my GCDs all on hotbar one, with my 4ths on the R2+L2/L2+R2 bar for ease of access, and my cooldowns on hotbar 2. Then disabled the shared hotbars when weapon is drawn, and added my oGCDs to hotbar 7&8 (which you can't access on controller really, but you can view your cooldowns to see if you need to switch bars to activate any).

As for potions, I play on Jenova, so they're hella expensive. Same with food. I craft/gather to mitigate the cost, though, and I don't use potions in regular dungeons. They're for boss fights only.

Is it viable to hit 2 ogcds when you get mad latency? I find myself feeling less effective trying for 2 ogcd weave when button pushes don't register correctly. I'm from New Zealand and play on PS4. I don't main Dragoon, but it's my go-to DPS class so I like to not be a burden in 4man content and do mad deeps.

Also another question about disposing of trash pulls. Is DS even worth using anymore? What is best for large groups? I usually run with my partner and she mains a SMN. I always feel like she murders everything and I'm there purely to put the boss on a pike.

What exactly is a 4th tier ability?

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Originally Posted by Reiden219

What exactly is a 4th tier ability?

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I believe the 4th tier ability mentioned is the ability gained from level 50-60.

But strictly speaking, it's either fang and claw / Wheeling thrust. and since we won't know what we get until we finish a combo, hence the vague name.

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Originally Posted by Greyfrost

I believe the 4th tier ability mentioned is the ability gained from level 50-60.

But strictly speaking, it's either fang and claw / Wheeling thrust. and since we won't know what we get until we finish a combo, hence the vague name.

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Ah, gotcha. Thank you for the explanation!

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

DS sucks in these new expert dungeons as of right now. Mostly because we arent as overgeared for it as we were for expert in 2.x yet. I can spam DS for 1000 TP and invigorate and still only have taken out about 30-40% of the hoard's HP pool, then I'm effectively neutered for quite a while. I'd rather'd IDC/TTT with georskoguls thrown in the mix, otherwise you'll have nothing for the next round of adds. I'm hopeful they will scale Doom Spike's damage at some point or reduce it's TP cost, but if nerfing Holy/Flare is any indication, likely not.

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IMHO DS / RoT is just bad if the adds are quite tanky. I pump more DPS with just doing a normal rotation on a target and popping GK as the AoE bit rather than spamming DS which gave low DPS/TP returns. The only moment I use HT > RoT > DS spam is at the Violet section of Fractal where the mobs there are very squishy.

What sort of dps were people getting around 180ilvl? (Law gear/upgraded only)

On a dummy, in a1, a2, a3 and a4 etc (if anyone had this that is).

I was practicing on a dummy last night and only maintained around 1050-1090 dps which i believe might be a little too low (not sure how much of a different Ravana weapon/Alexander gear makes).

at i180 with hive weapon, 1200 +- 20 with xpot food and party buff

without ravana wep, -30-40 is probably fair

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Originally Posted by BristolRuss

What is everybody's best parse so far on Faust? I just did 1448 which I was pretty happy with.

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What about your damage on faust alone? Dragonfire dive and geiriskol (how2spell) add trucks of aoe damage that clips the adds.

How can the stat weigh be lower now then before? That would make perfect penta melds less relevant now if those numbers are correct.

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Originally Posted by alpha2415

How can the stat weigh be lower now then before? That would make perfect penta melds less relevant now if those numbers are correct.

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You have a higher meld budget now, so it makes up for their weights being lower.

This skillspeed number in the main post is wrong. I can get full potency off heavy thrust at 555 skillspeed.

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Originally Posted by Sennema

Abusing crossbars is where it's at. I have my GCDs all on hotbar one, with my 4ths on the R2+L2/L2+R2 bar for ease of access, and my cooldowns on hotbar 2. Then disabled the shared hotbars when weapon is drawn, and added my oGCDs to hotbar 7&8 (which you can't access on controller really, but you can view your cooldowns to see if you need to switch bars to activate any).

As for potions, I play on Jenova, so they're hella expensive. Same with food. I craft/gather to mitigate the cost, though, and I don't use potions in regular dungeons. They're for boss fights only.

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Will I be losing much DPS if I ignore potions altogether? They're really expensive on cactuar, and I don't have much gil as it is

So I was parsing last night and I ran a test. The new Dragoon combo vs the old where phleb comes before the full thrust combo and you do the full thrust combo twice. So when I ran this test I assumed you guys were right and I'd see more damage from the new rotation. The weird thing is I did the new rotation perfectly and the old rotation I actually messed up slightly. But the old rotation (ht-p-id-db-ct-4th-tt-vt-ft-4th-x2) actually out damaged the new (ht-id-db-ct-4th-p-tt-vt-ft-4th repeat) by about 20-30 dps.

When I did the old rotation the dots would fall off for 1-2 seconds and so I was assuming at the end of the test I'd see that you guys were right and I'd have a nice dps boost. But the opposite happened. Anyone have any input on this? The parses were 1080 for the new and 1100 for the old. They were however 2 minute parses bc my buddy was short on time. But I don't really see why that would make much of a difference.

its just crit variance

on paper the alternating idc/ttt rotation is more potency

I didn't take crit variance into consideration

I also stick to single target unless dealing with Violet adds OR the section right before Alex 3. Also a bunch of old content trash and The Vault.

Sorry if this has come up already but what food should I eat? I've been eating apkallu omelette.

Alright. We know that the pushing DPS for phase 1 at Savage Alexander-1 is very important. I would like to know what's everyone's optimal rotation and DPS numbers at that phase. I'm assuming we will stop dots at some point and do more TTT4 so we can get it as low as possible fast in a bursty manner before 0.5 appears.

Doubtful, as CT is superior to TTTT after just 3 GCDs.

Hmm noted! But I would like to know how is everyone doing. I'm not sure if I'm not pushing enough or I'm already at my limits and I will have to see if my other fellow raid members can pull their own weight and push more.

Found this on Reddit, is it a reliable/accurate rotation to follow?

http://i.imgur.com/p0CQEfA.png

Dunno about everyone else but I'm doing 947 at enrage with no potions on A1 Savage.

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Originally Posted by Vincent_Mateus

Dunno about everyone else but I'm doing 947 at enrage with no potions on A1 Savage.

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Why aren't you using Potions on A1S lol