Cash shop confirmed

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Actually, for awhile they sold item codes for the Barret and Shirt (Vanadiel Collection bonus items) for about $4 each, it went over quite well because some people wanted them for other characters they had and didn't meet the requirements for (as they've been playing for 9 years at that point.)

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So selling 2 vanity items in FFXI = permanent cash shop with past event items, account services, vanity items, mounts and minions? Weird logic.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

By the way, you have yet to explain how they don't need the money. You keep claiming that they don't yet the annual report for the fiscal year of 2013 claims otherwise.

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Two things here.

Firstly, given that the expansion is just around the corner, the timing seems odd. If they need cash so badly, certainly implementing this a year later would have made more sense; announcing its presence at a Fan Festival designed to promote Heavensward seems an odd choice. They had to know this announcement was going to get a massive backlash from a significant chunk of the player base. It's going to cost them some expansion sales in the process, whereas an announcement a year from now would not have had that issue.

Secondly, exploiting your new flagship MMO when it's been out for barely a year (in 2.0 form) is not a good long-term plan for improving the company's bottom line. It's akin to raising your company's stock price by laying people off; eventually, you can't do it anymore, and it also has the side effect of limiting your options down the road.

In short, if SE needs cash so badly, then they need to improve their game design. It is the one and only thing that will provide them with sustainable long-term growth. The cash shop won't make up for lackluster development, and if development returns to a AAA level, then the cash shop would be unnecessary in the first place. So your argument here has some serious flaws in it.

I hope they add some unique items to the cash shop and then I hope to see the community ridicule any person seen with these unique items so that buying anything from it becomes a negative stigma in the community.

Easiest way to make this stuff go away after it is implemented is not use it or encourage its use.

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

Firstly, given that the expansion is just around the corner, the timing seems odd. If they need cash so badly, certainly implementing this a year later would have made more sense; announcing its presence at a Fan Festival designed to promote Heavensward seems an odd choice. They had to know this announcement was going to get a massive backlash from a significant chunk of the player base. It's going to cost them some expansion sales in the process, whereas an announcement a year from now would not have had that issue.

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They were probably forced to push this out before the expansion as they have it in mind with some of the new features coming down the road (here's looking at you Gold Sauce and Air Ships...).
At least now they have 6+ months to convince everyone to cover their eyes and ears before the expansion is released.

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Originally Posted by Ladon

I hope they add some unique items to the cash shop and then I hope to see the community ridicule any person seen with these unique items so that buying anything from it becomes a negative stigma in the community.

Easiest way to make this stuff go away after it is implemented is not use it or encourage its use.

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Yes, harassing your fellow players is a great way to...oh wait, that's a great way to get a ban. Or you can just not use the service and hope that your fellow players follow suit.

If they don't, you can take solace in how "enlightened" you are and how morally inferior those of us using the cash shop are. Especially the moral superiority of suggesting harassing your fellow player.

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Originally Posted by Codek

They were probably forced to push this out before the expansion as they have it in mind with some of the new features coming down the road (here's looking at you Gold Sauce and Air Ships...).
At least now they have 6+ months to convince everyone to cover their eyes and ears before the expansion is released.

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This could very well be the case - a good point, sir.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

So selling 2 vanity items in FFXI = permanent cash shop with past event items, account services, vanity items, mounts and minions? Weird logic.

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Pretty sure if they're looking at anything it's the sales of the Retainers and Fantasias, since you know how adamant people love to state "FFXIV is not FFXI."

P.S You seem to have forgotten how Yoshida looks up to Blizzard and using WoW as the 'role model' for FFXIV.

We vote with our dollars, if we as a community don't buy the content, the policies will change. But we as the community have to decided this. If we go out and buy all this stuff, they will keep making it, supply and demand.

I for one won't be buying anything from the cash shop, that's just something I don't do... But I don't have an issue if someone wants to use it. I'll leave it up to the community to decide of they want this kind of system.

Everyone always votes with their dollars.

All of you saying that it's fine as long as it isn't p2w don't seem to get that it is p2w for anyone who isn't primarily a raider. I know people who basically only log on to fish all day and care very little about dungeons; putting this stuff into the cash shop is like telling that fisher that they can't catch certain fish in the game. These fish would complete a fishing log that doesn't really have any purpose other than to give them a sense of accomplishment (and isn't that what a lot of people complete the newest, hardest dungeons for?) Or perhaps it's putting in a new lv.1 vanity fishing rod that's all armored and cool (and for $5 more you can have the novus glow version!) that previous to the cash shop if introduced would have been obtainable as an achievement for catching 300,000 fish or something.

I don't think you guys realize how enormous the category of "vanity" is in this game.

I'll repeat myself too; all of you "wait and see" people: We have already waited and already seen that they will keep getting worse. We already have proof that they will keep trying to take more and more from us; reassuring us that they won't go to the next level and then a few months later going to the next level; reassuring us that they won't go to the next level and then a few months later going to the next level; reassuring us that they won't go to the next level and then a few months later going to the next level.......

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

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Actually, the timing is perfect for now because people that do not like it can vent their discontent for the time being and when new actual information comes out on the expansion, people will be all over it. I seriously doubt that people will quit en masse just over this. People threaten to quit all the time over the pettiest things in MMO, it's nothing new to the genre.


They aren't actually exploiting it. Exploiting it would be putting items and stuff needed to actually play the game to its fullest in there, which is obviously not the case with this vanity stuff. The only thing they are doing is providing an optional service for people that are willing to pay for it.

The game design so far, while it has its flaws, has been easily competing against the best MMO out there and with other key features in the future coming out AND the expansion, the game will keep on growing just fine.

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Originally Posted by Ladon

I hope they add some unique items to the cash shop and then I hope to see the community ridicule any person seen with these unique items so that buying anything from it becomes a negative stigma in the community.

Easiest way to make this stuff go away after it is implemented is not use it or encourage its use.

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Yes, harassing and ridiculing people who don't share the same point of view as you is such an awesome way to raise a point in a mature and adult-like mannerhttp://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/i...s/rolleyes.png

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Pretty sure if they're looking at anything it's the sales of the Retainers and Fantasias, since you know how adamant people love to state "FFXIV is not FFXI."

P.S You seem to have forgotten how Yoshida looks up to Blizzard and using WoW as the 'role model' for FFXIV.

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Tupsi, is this seriously all you talk about? In almost all of your posts you've just got to mention how much FFXIV is a clone of 'WoW' or your love of FFXI.

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They aren't actually exploiting it. Exploiting it would be putting items and stuff needed to actually play the game to its fullest in there, which is obviously not the case with this vanity stuff. The only thing they are doing is providing an optional service for people that are willing to pay for it.

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Coil gear isn't really needed since you can use the latest tomestone + the equivalent of sands/oil to have gear of the same ilvl. With secondary stats making very little difference, Coil Gear is basically vanity.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Sorry to disappoint you but I haven't lost anything. My stance is "A company has every right to want money so let's wait to see how it turns out". Yours however is fear mongering and pure conjecture and don't say that I'm making conjecture either as I clearly stated that there is no way to know as of now what will and will not be in there in the future.

By the way, you have yet to explain how they don't need the money. You keep claiming that they don't yet the annual report for the fiscal year of 2013 claims otherwise.

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Yes, you lost the point of what I was saying. I was talking there about how a whole expansion is way more valuable than a single digital item and how their respectives prices don't match each other, while you were talking about the necessity of paying any of them. Two completely different things. But if it makes you happier, well, considering their prices and the respective resources that each one requires to get made, if there's the "necessity" of paying for an expansion at their usual price, considering that they have to get back their investment and make some profit, then the price of a minion in the cash shop (which would be what, a 0.00001% of an expac?) is just crazy and unneeded. So I guess that that gives me the reason too...

And regarding the annual report of 2013, I suggest that you look it better.

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Originally Posted by Delmontyb

snip.Everyone always votes with their dollars.

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That's very true.
When SE asked us legacy members for support to help keep things running and rebuild the game, we did. They were humble about it and we pitched in to play a horrible game, but eventually we got 2.0 as part of the deal. They are the ones that calculated their budgets all out to achieve that goal.
What's this cash shop for? Did they ask for help this time?
You guys don't have to say "well I want that minion so OK, I guess. Here's my money."
Ya a company has every right to want more money, customers have every right to ask them why do you want to take more than I'm already giving? If the answer is "Yoshi wants a new skateboard or the YEN rate has been dropping",fair enough. Is it a good answer? That's up to you. As a consumer, you can ask.

Simple question. Would you rather the items be obtainable from within the game or do you want to pay more on top of your subscription fee?

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Originally Posted by Ladon

I hope they add some unique items to the cash shop and then I hope to see the community ridicule any person seen with these unique items so that buying anything from it becomes a negative stigma in the community.

Easiest way to make this stuff go away after it is implemented is not use it or encourage its use.

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This community in a nutshell, ladies and gentlemen. When whining and doomsaying doesn't work, belittle, heckle and hate others until you get what you want...
And be alone when most players leave to spite the stupid, me included.

Can this topic seriously just go away because it's bringing out the worst out of everyone in the dumbest of ways with no real end to it.

That's one user. I loathe the cash shop and won't renew my sub but hey, if you wanna buy stuff go ahead, it'll fund games I'm more interested in and think are worth my money, so... go ahead and spend as much cash on it as you can. You get the items you want, I get games that I like, we both win.

Here's to an earlier KH 3 release :)

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Originally Posted by Moqi

That's one user.

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The likes on that post speak volumes. Someone puts forward a suggestion to bully other players and it gets huge thumbs up? That's a problem with the community no matter what side of the argument you sit on.

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Here's to an earlier KH 3 release :)

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and a KH crossover event to go with it hopefully. I've been wanting SE to do one since the FFXIII crossover.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

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Except that nowhere did I state that the cost of development to price being sold ratio between a minion and an expansion were even remotely close to similar. In fact, I even stated in another post that this type of item is extremely profitable. My point was that it was irrelevant to bring expansion in this debate because they have always been sold due to the sheer amount of works that goes into them.

And by the way, do tell me how my conclusion of that report is wrong. An argument using numbers supported by facts, not mere suppositions based on a whim after you skimmed through it or saying that I just need to look at it because you disagree with me.

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Originally Posted by Merylx

Tupsi, is this seriously all you talk about? In almost all of your posts you've just got to mention how much FFXIV is a clone of 'WoW' or your love of FFXI.

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You forgot "taking anything Yoshida says out of context and use it to build snowmen, with straw instead of snow"

I have never see him say anything positive about the game, it's always how it should have been like XI or how 1.0 was better, makes me wonder why he still plays it (if he does) when XI is still alive and kicking, why force yourself to play something you don't enjoy?

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Originally Posted by Negotiator

That's very true.
When SE asked us legacy members for support to help keep things running and rebuild the game, we did. They were humble about it and we pitched in to play a horrible game, but eventually we got 2.0 as part of the deal. They are the ones that calculated their budgets all out to achieve that goal.
What's this cash shop for? Did they ask for help this time?
You guys don't have to say "well I want that minion so OK, I guess. Here's my money."
Ya a company has every right to want more money, customers have every right to ask them why do you want to take more than I'm already giving? If the answer is "Yoshi wants a new skateboard or the YEN rate has been dropping",fair enough. Is it a good answer? That's up to you. As a consumer, you can ask.

Simple question. Would you rather the items be obtainable from within the game or do you want to pay more on top of your subscription fee?

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I really think this sums up a lot of the feelings I've been having. Not to step into the debate of whether or not the cash shop is right or wrong as a whole, but there is a difference between paying for legacy / collector's edition to support a failing game and trying to sell more items out of the game that are already there.

This just doesn't feel like how we've been treated so far. Yoshi's humble attitude towards the players is what saved this game. Not entirely the content. That attitude is seemingly starting to turn. It's not full blown exec a-hole attitude, but this is a definite shift. If it wasn't, people wouldn't react to it :(

If you disagree with this kind of attitude, please continue to express yourself. If you agree with it, you should express yourselves as well. We're a community, not two opposing forces. I've created a petition for previous free content to stay free instead of being added to the cash shop (link is in my signature). Yoshi and the team have listened to us before (they cut housing prices at the end of the time limit for expensive servers, they also allowed legacy members the opportunity to recreate their characters before launch - I personally made the English petition for this). Either way, I think we should approach this in a constructive manner together ^^

Look my dears, it has started.

You now pay 7€ PER fantasia, not 7€ for fantasias for all your characters.

Please look forward to it!

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Originally Posted by Xhominid

This community in a nutshell, ladies and gentlemen. When whining and doomsaying doesn't work, belittle, heckle and hate others until you get what you want...
And be alone when most players leave to spite the stupid, me included.

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Yup, and if that's the kind of crowd that is being pushed away by the cash shop, the more reason to welcome its addition.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

That's one user. I loathe the cash shop and won't renew my sub but hey, if you wanna buy stuff go ahead, it'll fund games I'm more interested in and think are worth my money, so... go ahead and spend as much cash on it as you can. You get the items you want, I get games that I like, we both win.

Here's to an earlier KH 3 release :)

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And 7 other people agreed with his/her nonsense. I don't plan on buying anything from the Cash Shop because due to only working oddjobs, I can't splurge on stuff even if I wanted to and have to pay for the subs enough as is, but if people saw that post and agreed with it and did that, you do realize that will reflect on EVERYONE, not just those 8 people right?

This is what gaming is becoming. You know how all the new games are getting DLCs on day 1 since people will suck it up and buy anyway? This is how it's going to be. People will be happy to not get full content and just pay more to get what should have been in-game since the beginning.

What's going there next? An housing licence since Yoshida said it's not pay to win? But then, is the meaning of "win" the same for everyone? I don't think "win" means only bringing a boss down.

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Originally Posted by Xhominid

Can this topic seriously just go away because it's bringing out the worst out of everyone in the dumbest of ways with no real end to it.

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I would prefer not to see this, though certainly it's unfortunate that people are advocating for the shunning of anyone who buys an item out of the cash shop.

I mean, how else are gamers supposed to make their voices heard, except through large discussions like this? SE is surely taking note of the fact that this is over 100 pages long by now. If a thread like this were to crop up every few weeks for the next several months, they would almost certainly be inclined to reconsider the decision to implement the shop in the first place.

After all, you must realize, there's a (likely large) subset of gamers who play FFXIV who don't want to see this game catering to the same population that plays WoW. They have every right to voice their opinion, and if they want to continue enjoying FFXIV to the fullest, they indeed have an obligation to continue voicing their opinion. Being silent will clearly result in SE continuing down the same path they're already on.

Now, me personally? I've given up the fight. I don't really care anymore, beyond a lingering disappointment that FFXIV is being designed to whore itself out to the lowest common denominator. That said, the principle remains for those who still want to try to influence the direction of XIV's development.

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Originally Posted by Riviere

Yup, and if that's the kind of crowd that is being pushed away by the cash shop, the more reason to welcome its addition.

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For me, I'd rather not have that sentiment tied to it, as much as the bully/harassment crap pisses me off and I'd rather that particular sort of player not inflict their nonsense on their fellow players. I'm skeptical that it will push any large number of players away and I'm hopeful it won't drive down subs.

It's a really divisive subject in any MMO (I don't think a single MMO exists when a cash shop that hasn't had this argument among it's players). I don't want to see players rage quit over it. Here's hoping they make their opinion known and then keep playing and not using the cash shop. Square can then make a choice about keeping it or not based on revenue.

As for me? I'm getting the minions and Slepnir.

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Originally Posted by Riviere

Yup, and if that's the kind of crowd that is being pushed away by the cash shop, the more reason to welcome its addition.

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So instead of trying to vote with your wallets or even with quitting the game, you instead want to antagonize people and hope they come to your cause? Thank god you aren't at the head of anything.

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Originally Posted by ZohnoReecho

This is what gaming is becoming. You know how all the new games are getting DLCs on day 1 since people will suck it up and buy anyway? This is how it's going to be. People will be happy to not get full content and just pay more to get what should have been in-game since the beginning.

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You can just pay your subscription and that's it...be thankful they aimed for that option instead of charging MORE out of the subscription.

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

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Atleast there's someone reasonable here instead of being crazy...

Being how its SE I am so conflicted. If they used this money purely for their development department for all their games I guess I could be on board. But that is the only exception, otherwise it really is kind of a slap in the face for a game that has a decent priced sub already. Also nothing stops them from putting the best things in there and giving us scrap minions/mounts/etc.

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Originally Posted by Xhominid

You can just pay your subscription and that's it...be thankful they aimed for that option instead of charging MORE out of the subscription.

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I guess you are one of those people happy to get half baked stuff priced the same as the old full content.
They just made my subscription worth less, so it's like I'm paying more.

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Here's hoping they make their opinion known and then keep playing and not using the cash shop. Square can then make a choice about keeping it or not based on revenue.

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The problem is it this doesn't work in an MMO with a sub. I don't hate the concept of DLCs (except day one), but I find them all incredibly over priced - I only bought one in all my life and I don't plan on buying more. I've decided with my wallet, they invested on the DLC hoping for a profit but they are not getting my money because I am not interested.

This cash shop though? They are investing money that I have already given to them thanks to the sub. I have already paid for the development of these things, so even if I don't buy them after they're created... whatever, there is no loss. No one's buying your dlc? Probably won't make more because you've lost money. No one's buying from the cash shop? Eh, they already got my sub anyway.

Btw, if we wanna talk about attitudes, let's not forget the other side of the medal and how some users here have already started showing the I-have-more-money-than-you attitude, mocking those who are not able to afford said items... which is also one of the reasons why I don't like the idea of a cash shop with exclusive items. It's e-peen contest galore.

Just cancelled my recurring subscription. :(
Now, I still have about 4 month of game time I've already paid for that I will try to enjoy with the friends I've made, but I'm not sticking around to be bent over by SE. This cash shop thing has just trod on two of the things I valued most in this game.

The first is my enjoyment of the collection of curious seasonal and commemorative nick nacks. Since I subbed, I've been religiously collecting all these I can. So far I've only missed the Hatching-tide stuff due outside reasons keeping me away from the game. I was still subbed; I just lacked the time to sit down and play. As such, I was looking forward to getting my chance to in next year's version of the event. That same anticipation was held for this year's All Saints' Wake, Starlight Celebration, and Heavensturn(or really next year's for this last one, but that's just being pedantic).(Continued)

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Originally Posted by Moqi

Btw, if we wanna talk about attitudes, let's not forget the other side of the medal and how some users here have already started showing the I-have-more-money-than-you attitude, mocking those who are not able to afford said items... which is also one of the reasons why I don't like the idea of a cash shop with exclusive items. It's e-peen contest galore.

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This... I know of at least 2 people already showing off their e-peen in advance because... e-peen.

Actually I can only feel pity for people that need to shove money into pixels and try to rub those pixels around in order to have some kind of achievement in their non-existent life.

(Continued)That anticipation is now crushed by the knowledge that I will have to pay SE Well over a month's subscription fee if I want access to the items from just one of these past events. Hell, even then I frantically held on to a small hope and searched the event locations for a vendor like in events past.

The second was a little dream I had. Let me tell you a little story of how I met Odin in game. During my first week I happened to, by coincidence, be nearby him when he spawned. I was perplexed by the sudden and strange new weather so I asked a friend was informed that about the FATE. In less than a minute I of searching I managed to stumble across the people gathering to fight him and ended up watching and rezzing the fallen as it went on. Now this experience gave my first real focused goal for the game: to one day cosplay as Odin during a spawn and give and have some laughs over said shenanigans.(Continued)

(Continued)As you could imagine, when they datamined Urth's Gift and the Sleipneir Horn I was tremendously excited. The cosplay would be almost perfect; it would be glorious! When Fan Fest confirmed that an Odin trial was coming I even managed to get hyped at the thought of earning that mount, and shield I hear, through an entertaining and challenging fight. All of this was dashed upon finding out that you have to buy this mount. Sure I could still go through with the original plan, but it somehow wouldn't feel the same. I didn't play the game to be able to do this cool/fun thing. I opened up my wallet for it.

Now, it would be fair to say that my heartbreak was brought upon myself by building expectations of things I didn't know how they would turn out, but it doesn't make it sting any less.(Continued)

(Continued)I've always thought highly of this team. They have been able to admit to mistakes and generally treat us with a modicum of respect, on top of turning around a horribly broken game into a wonderful experience. But this kind of thing whether it originates from within the team or is mandate given by the corporate overlords from on high is not something I can just grin and bear. I have been an SE customer long enough to know their MO, and know it is only going to get worse from here. :(

P.S. Two things:
1. The minions being in the shop is pure bull crap since it is obvious that they were designed along with the event minions and their inclusion in the event was foregone in favor of selling them for a premium by sticking in the cash shop.
2. I will admit that I'm weak and have purchased an extra retainer, but I loathe myself for it. I would much prefer to pay a gil subscription to the retainer vocate than pay even a cent for better access to a game function. :mad:

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

If SE keeps all cash shop items as vanity only, and makes them also obtainable in-game by completing content, similar to what they've done for everything else up to this point, that will be fine. Whether it be quests, FATE drops, seasonal events, crafting recipes, whatever... As long as I, and anyone else, has the option of obtaining those same items by actually playing the game, rather than pulling out the credit card, I see no problem with it.

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There are a couple of ways this can still harm the game, depending on one's view.

The first is that the presence of a cash shop, by definition, changes the nature of the community which chooses to play the game. As I've said before, I played FFXI over WoW largely because I preferred the community. The continuing effort by the development team to emulate aspects of WoW is therefore, to me, harming the game.

The second is theoretical, and obviously there is no way to prove it, which I freely admit. However, given that there's a cash shop alternative, I can't help but wonder whether this will continue to embolden SE to release vanity items with the ridiculously low drop rates that a lot of them currently have. For instance, the 1% or so drop rate on the Primal horses is absurd. It should never have been this low - ever. Were there no cash shop, these artificially low drop rates would become a source of increasingly vocal complaints by the community, eventually leading to change. With a cash shop, on the other hand, those complaints will largely vanish - and SE will have effectively created its own market, while still technically maintaining the ability of players to get the item via in-game content. To me, this type of decision would also harm the game, though again, it's hard to say whether these two decisions have been intentionally correlated on the development side.

So, I'm not sure it's a fair "compromise" really.

To broaden my response slightly, the main issue here is that compromise is somewhat impossible. I think the core complaint of people opposed to the cash shop is that they don't want XIV to appeal to larger populations; they want it to be a more selective title, like FFXI was. The existence of a cash shop, no matter the form, no matter how restricted, is still a problem for these individuals - not because it directly affects them, but because it indirectly alters the composition of the community in ways they don't like.

Edit / Addition:

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Originally Posted by Xhominid

You can just pay your subscription and that's it...be thankful they aimed for that option instead of charging MORE out of the subscription.

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Frankly, I'd have actually rather seen them attach $5/mo more to the subscription price. As alluded to above, I explicitly do not want FFXIV catering to the masses to the extent that it is. A higher price range helps to make it more selective, and a corresponding lack of a cash shop (with preferably a wholesale shift away from the amount of vanity gear being released) would also help to improve the community, in my eyes. One of the best aspects of FFXI's development, in my eyes, is that the game was created under a consistent image, rather than catering to the most people possible. It's what gave it the unique feel and complex world that many of us treasure to this day. FFXIV has thus far tossed that philosophy out, which might make for more subscribers, but results in a weaker game, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Well,
So, instead, I will leave this here as my input:
If SE keeps all cash shop items as vanity only, and makes them also obtainable in-game by completing content, similar to what they've done for everything else up to this point, that will be fine. Whether it be quests, FATE drops, seasonal events, crafting recipes, whatever... As long as I, and anyone else, has the option of obtaining those same items by actually playing the game, rather than pulling out the credit card, I see no problem with it.
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Then you should have a problem with it already. All Saints Wake, no past event items. Oh, but lookie there, $30 gets all the past items for that event.

Edit- and to clarify on those who talk about ' its not the same event.' I'm not even sure how you can come up with that on the base fact its the same event. But even going along with that, is a continuation of the story from last years event, even bringing back old characters/themes/items in the CS's, stuff they will never have access to now (unless you wanna take out the wallet, sans lore).

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

To broaden my response slightly, the main issue here is that compromise is somewhat impossible. I think the core complaint of people opposed to the cash shop is that they don't want XIV to appeal to larger populations; they want it to be a more selective title, like FFXI was. The existence of a cash shop, no matter the form, no matter how restricted, is still a problem for these individuals - not because it directly affects them, but because it indirectly alters the composition of the community in ways they don't like.

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I agree with you on this one. I can empathize with those who want FFXIV to remain small scale. I mean I kinda loved that about FFXI. But another part of me wants people to take this game as a proper MMO. and If (a big speculation as I dont know what SE will do with the extra funds) the extra money lends to higher quality books and cds or dvds or real life events, then thats the best I can hope for. If this is the dark-ish path SE needs to take to make a MMO that people will see, then *sigh* I can see how it pans out.

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

Frankly, I'd have actually rather seen them attach $5/mo more to the subscription price. As alluded to above, I explicitly do not want FFXIV catering to the masses to the extent that it is. A higher price range helps to make it more selective, and a corresponding lack of a cash shop (with preferably a wholesale shift away from the amount of vanity gear being released) would also help to improve the community, in my eyes. One of the best aspects of FFXI's development, in my eyes, is that the game was created under a consistent image, rather than catering to the most people possible. It's what gave it the unique feel and complex world that many of us treasure to this day. FFXIV has thus far tossed that philosophy out, which might make for more subscribers, but results in a weaker game, in my opinion.

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They somewhat tried being different with FFXI, while it was profitable for what it was, it was a very small game and as such it took it a long time to be profitable.

Not a disappointment if you support a game that deserves to be supported.

When I hear the words cash shop I think of SWTOR. But this is not at all along the same lines.

SWTOR, for an example doesn't deserve to be supported by any means. Their method is to put the cash shop first AHEAD of Subscribers satisfaction. Any Studio who does that deserves to be shunned like they are.

The only way the cash shop in FFXIV will be a disappointment is if they follow BioWare Austin Studio/EA's adoption. And I know they won't be doing that. It would mean major changes, and why fix something (even though it wasn't a fix at all for the players) that isn't broken unlike SWTOR's weak and broken, well... everything.

I see it as more like Blizzards approach to the cash shop. As long as it stays away from gambling loot boxes, its perfectly fine for a pet here and a mount there.

The attitudes in this thread can be summed up perfectly by the tag cloud already...

There's too much name-calling and dung-flinging going on now. If you want to be heard, make it civil, and not use the opposing party as an avenue for you to bash on. It goes both ways.