To Tanks Who only pull One Mob at a Time......

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Originally Posted by game_enjoyer

This would be fine if the bar for tanking wasn't subterranean. Tanking is so easy I can explain how to do it for every tank right now. Put stance on, pop sprint before aggroing the first mob pack (optional), reach the wall, grabbing mobs on the way, and apply arm's length + reprisal. After 10 seconds, apply your 30% mitigation. After 10 seconds, apply your 10% mitigation. After 5 seconds, apply rampart. Use AoE abilities in between. That rotation is good enough to get you through a majority of w2w pulls without engaging with anything else and just relying on your healer to pick up the slack. It's not an issue of "Why aren't they as good as me?!" It's an issue of, "The developers have been intentionally making this role easier and easier for the last 2 expansions, how are we still having these issues?"

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I wish you now explain us how to dps the packs, as thats the part I see need the most help.

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Originally Posted by DBriggs304

While it can be slow, tanks run the show.

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While it can be slow, tanks run the show, but oh no, healer mana is looking low, DPS is low, or things are dying slow, and I can't go no moe, and our Cooldowns are a no-show.
Do I really set the pace? Or must I embrace, that this is a team race. and we all have a place, in setting the pace.
For there is no puller, only those with lifebars fuller, whom's we must delete before we are beat.
who will last? if we wipe, it will be in the past. if we win, we can raise our chins,
we all set the pace, for it's not one person's place.

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Originally Posted by Stanazolol

I wish you now explain us how to dps the packs, as thats the part I see need the most help.

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oh yes thats true. people think dps jobs dont have any responsibilities, thats why they slack of. and saying something in that direction is the most evil thing to do. yet its such an important part.

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Originally Posted by Asari5

oh yes thats true. people think dps jobs dont have any responsibilities, thats why they slack of. and saying something in that direction is the most evil thing to do. yet its such an important part.

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And you notice the difference hugely in a run, when dps are good vs when they aren't, more than tank and healer being good. If packs melt like chocolate in the sun, you barely even need mitigation and heals at all.
You notice that in expert roulette, nvm the gear thing, but even at equal gear you notice how with people who knowtheir rotation sprint doesn't evencome off cd by the time your pull is dead and you run to the next pack. Imagine how much faster and smoother levelling dungeons would be with good dps.

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Originally Posted by JacobNewblood

While it can be slow, tanks run the show, but oh no, healer mana is looking low, DPS is low, or things are dying slow, and I can't go no moe, and our Cooldowns are a no-show.
Do I really set the pace? Or must I embrace, that this is a team race. and we all have a place, in setting the pace.
For there is no puller, only those with lifebars fuller, whom's we must delete before we are beat.
who will last? if we wipe, it will be in the past. if we win, we can raise our chins,
we all set the pace, for it's not one person's place.

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if this happens even with the tank only pulling single packs, what do you think pulling more packs would do?
You can't even deal with one. Tank made the right call on this case xD

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Originally Posted by DBriggs304

While it can be slow, tanks run the show.

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Found the YPYT.

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Originally Posted by Breakbeat

-snip off topic wrong arguments-
...and yes...

"I can play this game with my eyes closed, drunk, with both hands tied behind my back. And this random dude can't even pull two packs?!?!"

Insanity, folks. Think about it.

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Tanking 1 group or 2 groups or 10 groups in a dungeon DOES NOT CHANGE WHAT YOU DO AS A TANK. Activate mitigations, use AoEs. If there's 2 mobs or 20 that's what you're doing. The more mobs you grab the EASIER it is for EVERYONE. If I hit Rampart with 20 mobs hitting me, it is 10 TIMES more powerful (i.e. mitigating 10 times the damage) than if I hit it with 2 mobs hitting me. If all of the part members are AE 20 mobs, those abilities are 10 times more powerful than whenever you have 2 mobs.

Stop acting like grabbing more mobs makes it more difficult to hit that 2 button AoE combo for some reason. The ONLY person that has a significantly more difficult time is the healer.

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Originally Posted by hagare

if this happens even with the tank only pulling single packs, what do you think pulling more packs would do?
You can't even deal with one. Tank made the right call on this case xD

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Not at all. Pulling single packs means that your party stays in combat more often which means that the healer's mana won't regenerate fast enough. Healers don't run out of mana because they have to heal, they run out of mana because of long fight times. Even if DPS are shit, pulling 2 groups is still going to be better than 1.

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Not at all. Pulling single packs means that your party stays in combat more often which means that the healer's mana won't regenerate fast enough. Healers don't run out of mana because they have to heal, they run out of mana because of long fight times. Even if DPS are shit, pulling 2 groups is still going to be better than 1.

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Honestly, if we're talking standard dungeons, a healer running out of mana means they're still learning how to use their toolkit. Either they're spamming high-mana heals unnecessarily instead of using more efficient spells, or they're not using their mana regen ability/abilities, or both. The length of any given fight is irrelevant for someone with a good idea of how their toolkit works, since they won't run out anyway.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Honestly, if we're talking standard dungeons, a healer running out of mana means they're still learning how to use their toolkit. Either they're spamming high-mana heals unnecessarily instead of using more efficient spells, or they're not using their mana regen ability/abilities, or both. The length of any given fight is irrelevant for someone with a good idea of how their toolkit works, since they won't run out anyway.

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The problem with large pulls that take a while to burn down isn't MP so much as running out of CDs. Especially if we already had to use some when the tank stopped to equalize things. I think the person you quoted doesn't realize that with small packs, less CDs are used and usually less MP because we don't have to heal that much unless the team is struggling on the smaller pulls. I think my worst time as a healer is when a tank pulls big, dps is very low, and both the tank and I run out of CDs. It's better in my experience to pull small in those situations. If there's the trifecta of a squishy tank, even moreso.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Honestly, if we're talking standard dungeons, a healer running out of mana means they're still learning how to use their toolkit. Either they're spamming high-mana heals unnecessarily instead of using more efficient spells, or they're not using their mana regen ability/abilities, or both. The length of any given fight is irrelevant for someone with a good idea of how their toolkit works, since they won't run out anyway.

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Your scenario definitely is the higher possibility, but it's still not the only one. If you run out of your resources/cooldowns you will run out of mana shortly after. There is an exponential increase in power whenever you pull more groups.

Mitigation cool downs become more powerful
Offensive buffs become so much more powerful

If people use a decent number of their cooldowns on the first pack, the second pack is going to take longer to kill, you're not doing to have the cool downs (mit/heals/offensive) you need, you're possibly not going to have regenerated enough resources, etc.

Certain abilities (mainly resource based heals) are a big source of MP regeneration for healers. So if you don't have them not only are you losing out on a "free heal", but you're also not gaining MP and instead losing MP. That's another exponential issue.

If I'm playing SGE and have 6000 MP left, I could:

Use Druochole for an Addersgall for 700 cure potency and end up with 6700 MP
Use Physis for a HoT and stay at 6000MP
Use Eukrasian Diagnosis for 840 cure potency and end up with 5100 MP

If I don't have the resource for Druochole or the cooldown for Physis, then I am 1600 MP "worse off" than if I did. The game definitely makes it easy to stay in the realm of "Everything is Ok", but that's partially because of the exponential gains in the "efficient" way of playing the game (i.e. wall to wall pulls). Once you start peeling away certain efficiencies, you can really get to "Everything is not ok" fairly fast.

BUT, misplaying is still the more likely reason that a healer will run out of mana, yes.

I know i already said it:
1. Talk with your party about WHAT YOU want
2. if the tank plays diffrently just vote kick or leave or get kicked for diffrence in playstyle

Not hard, not special.