[spoilers]3.2 MSQ Discussion/Reaction thread

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

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Aww, someone beat me to it. <3

But yeah, there's still a part of me that expects Cutest Ascian to pull something like:

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Originally Posted by Unukalhai?

My time on this plane is now over, send regards to my--
*fades to white*

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Originally Posted by Urianger?

Rest well, my friend. We won't forget--
Oh, hey [[playername]]! Long time no see! How was Ishgard?

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because we're all idiots with the memories of goldfish.

Just because we think there's no way a "side" character can have relevance to a major MSQ thread and still disappear without a trace, doesn't mean they won't try something like that again just to be unexpected.

I don't expect him to survive just because I don't trust SE's narrative structure. They've done just that to side characters consistently.

Now, you know what would be a brutal twist, with far more impact than him dying some heroic sacrifice for us?

Having dealt with the Garlean and Triad problems together and showing that he's a genuine, true friend, despite our differing existences, Unukalhai survives and has to return to his master and stays to fight by his side when we challenge him. Preferably with lots of pained and hesitant dialogue whenever we have to face him in-battle.

That would be heartwrenching in a way that a sacrifice wouldn't be, since we'd have just killed a friend for our purposes. SE will never do it, it's easier and more plot convenient to get rid of him early, and I understand that.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

Keep in mind that we solo'd Ravana, too (gameplay and story segregation; I can link you to another thread about why it's basically not possible for some of these battles to have anyone but the WoL in it, Ravana story mode is one of them

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A conclusion that I still disagree with - both Ifrit and Ravana have spots where you can sneak out to get reinforcements, and are both mentioned by NPCs as such (Flame soldier and Ysale respectively).

Since he steps into his arena to await your challenge, you have the opportunity to grab those reinforcements.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

While this was likely a typo, I now totally want to see a Primal summoned by other Primals. Like some kind of Primal^2. It'll temper other Primals into an unstoppable Primal army, and eventually there'll be an offshoot camp of non-tempered Primals that we'll end up doing daily quests for, and...

I'll stop now. :o

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Does Bahamut summoning Phoenix count?

They have always been kind of vague on the soloing part. One thing that stood out to me with Sephirot is they actually mention your 'gifted adventurer allies'. Does that mean that lore wise we know a bunch of Adventurer who are blessed by the echo because this came right after they were talking about how they couldn't enter due to the risk of being tempered.

I actually feel like SephEx was blatant like that precisely to clear up some misgivings.

But still, Ravana Ex? Bismarck Ex? Spoken need to be attuned to teleport somewhere. The only way you can attune to those fights and enter the arena through the use of those ancient relic - relics which are destroyed after you use them.

And ARF? That's a completely different mess of trying to consider more than one person entering. To justify that one you need to break the laws of the in-game universe or twist your mind around some pretty weird situations.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

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great theory, that was a really well-thought and interesting read!

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

And ARF? That's a completely different mess of trying to consider more than one person entering.

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You used the Echo to split each member of your 4-man party in two when you realized the bigger gun was necessary.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

But still, Ravana Ex? Bismarck Ex? Spoken need to be attuned to teleport somewhere. The only way you can attune to those fights and enter the arena through the use of those ancient relic - relics which are destroyed after you use them.

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What? I remember an entirely different course of events; We smashed the relic against the aetherytes and then got some humorous dialog along the lines of "Nothing happens, so out of habit you just attune to the aetheryte". It actually makes me wonder what was up with those relics, because they seemingly did nothing... Taking a look at the journal;

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To prevent the awakening of the Warring Triad, Bismarck must be cast down once more, and Unukalhai declares that you shall slay him using the same methods as before. The boy then furnishes you with a large gemstone and bids you show it to Chief Sonu of the Zundu, in case he is feeling reluctant to give you all that you require.

Chief Sonu believes the gemstone in your possession is a relic of great power. If smashed against a Vundu aetheryte nestled in the Whale's Crown, it will render Bismark vulnerable... Yet, upon further reflection, you recall no mention of this white whale's newfound invulnerability prior to this. That said, if the primal does have some form of protection, it will need to be circumvented before he can be defeated. Inform Cid of your new task.

Cid seems poised to explain in detail how Chief Sonu's request makes no sense whatsoever. However, he instead hazards that it might bring you good luck.

With all your might, you smash the gemstone against the aetheryte...and nothing much happens. Out of habit, you attune with the aetheryte..and again, nothing much happens. If your actions had any meaning, it remains to be seen. In any case, Cid is waiting.

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Unukalhai bids you return to Thok ast Thok, where the resurgent Lord of the Hive builds his strength in eager anticipation. Doubtful that the act of surrendering will fool the Gnath a second time, the boy presents you with a gemstone, the Burning Eye of Ravana, and sends you to speak with the elder of the Nonmind. Travel to Loth ast Vath, and consult with the Vath storyteller about a new path into Ravana's domain.

You speak with the Vath elder, and he tells you of an aetheryte found inside a sacred cave on the far side of the colony. He warns you, however, that the wards placed upon the crystalline structure will admit only the most worthy of warriors...whatever that might mean. Make your way to the Gynehive in Loth ast Gnath, and attune to the Gnathic aetheryte.

You smash the gemstone against the aetheryte...and nothing much happens. You then proceed to attune to the aetheryte without difficulty, the invisible wards seemingly satisfied by the sacrifice of Unukalhai's bauble. Prove yourself now a worthy challenger, an vanquish the unbridled Wrath of the Colony!

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So first thing, none of this is what Unukalhai told us to do... Wonder if he'll be mad about that eventually... "Quick, we can only stop Regula van Kefkus with those relics I gave you!"

Secondly, we didn't need them to attune. The Vanu believed smashing theirs would weaken Bismarck, while the Vath simply believe we need to be worthy, if there truly were invisible wards preventing us from attuning (why the hell didn't we try attuning first?!) one would assume our friends could attune in the opening we provided by smashing the thing anyway (I certainly did that quest with friends right after Bismarck).

Given how much emphasis they put on these though... I really wonder if they'll have some deeper meaning later on... Perhaps it was just a joke to liven up the typical "Go attune for the fight!", similar to Tidus and Levibetus? Perhaps Unukalhai merely gave them to us to have the tribes help us, perhaps we were meant to hold onto them to absorb some of Bismarck/Ravana's power after slaying them?

Anyway... On the topic of having friends in fights... I think we tend to have friends along for the ride with this stuff... They're not shown in cutscenes for practicalities sake, but lore wise I'm incline to think we're the leader of our own Free Company and when we get a quest, our members are standing right besides us ready to help. Alternatively the Duty Finder takes a leaf from Bravely Default (speaking of, can Bravely Third come out on a console with a battery life that doesn't make me hate everything? I want to keep playing Bravely Second T_T) and our Echo power just grants us the ability to call upon alternate reality Warriors of Light to help us... With them leaning more and more towards adding a "You and your friends did it!" narrative with fights (Steps of Faith was a prime example), I'm incline to think we're never solo in these things. Either we just have friends around all the time, or the Echo did it, probably a mix of the two. It simply isn't practical for cutscenes to cover this sort of thing though, they could include party members in cutscenes and alter dialog based on them being there, but I'd rather they work on something more meaningful (like taking Fencer and Wizard from Bravely Second and melding them together into a glorious Red Mage Job for 2.0, yes I want it that early...).

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

And ARF? That's a completely different mess of trying to consider more than one person entering. To justify that one you need to break the laws of the in-game universe or twist your mind around some pretty weird situations.

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Remember that Heavensward artwork with the group riding Midgardsormr? Yeah, I'm going with that. We had some friends with us in the lead up to Tiamat (perhaps they kept some Garleans off our backs during the random solo instance with Regula that only existed to have him run off like Kefka, rather than have him question what the flip just happened to his shiny new warship... Why did he not care that Ysayle summoned Shiva, again?) and then we all just jumped on Middy to rush to Flagship... Perhaps one party went off a different direction when exploring the place, and we met back up when Thordan showed up to explain the 4 man into 8 man shift (in reality they nerfed ARF from Praetorium level "Why are our raids so bad when this is so good?" awesomeness into a cheap dungeon and epic Trial). How they got out is another matter... Teleporting is a thing though, we even directly see Derplander using it, so I'd say our friends just hit Return after we delivered our coup de gravy to Thordan, because they're merely Adventurer's, just there for the non-existent loot, while we're the Warrior of Light, who needs to deal with the aftermath in cutscenes. Echo hacks would better explain how we're all Warriors of Light, of course, but unless we get a direct mention of Bravely Default level parallel world hacks, I'm leaning much more heavily towards "My friends are farming dragonskins while I'm in a cutscene with Tiamat". We could simply break down the barriers that divide worlds in that small pocket (why we can't leave the area, perhaps?) to find 3~7 other versions of "us" in order to overcome extreme odds... Certainly fun to theorize either way, but either way I'm fairly certain we're not alone (yes I put that in italics just to reference FFIX, and yes I added this just to remind people that FFIX is the best) in any instances...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Given how much emphasis they put on these though... I really wonder if they'll have some deeper meaning later on... Perhaps it was just a joke to liven up the typical "Go attune for the fight!", similar to Tidus and Levibetus? Perhaps Unukalhai merely gave them to us to have the tribes help us, perhaps we were meant to hold onto them to absorb some of Bismarck/Ravana's power after slaying them?

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It didn't really seem humorous to me, if it was intended to be it was lost in translation.

I see there to be two purposes for the ancient relics:

1. Another one of those hints that Unukalhai is definitely not a normal boy. As if we really needed another with everything hitting us hard as a tank's Da'at splash. These relics are so ancient the beast tribes didn't know they still existed, how did Unukalhai or his 'master' come to have them in his possession?
2. I've mentioned this in threads before, but did the fact that we used something of a ritual of sacrifice to encounter Primals signal bright flashing red lights at anyone else? I feel like this is kind of the point, there's something really odd going on there. Especially when paired with Totally-not-Elidibus-or-his-servant being totally-not-an-Ascian-we-swear and the entire 2.X Ex primal series teased at the Ascians teaching new rituals for summoning at us.

Back in 3.0 I toyed with the idea that we helped in strengthening the primals based upon Lahabrea's ARF dialogue - that we're always looking for more and stronger foes to fight, but at the same time that doesn't particularly make sense, especially after 3.1 (WoDs banishing them) and 3.2. Why would he want us to strengthen the Primals and risk getting hurt if he wants us to deal with the Triad later?

The mystery of Unukalhai's relics is one of those most irksome for me.

PS: FFV is best.