Stop "fixing" the MW scrap it

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Originally Posted by AngryNixon

Also, I bet if SE implemented an AH exactly like the one in FFXI because they were lazy and called it The Item Exchange Place nobody would even notice and say that it was neat and interesting.

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Yes I would notice it, the same way I would notice if they stopped rendering my character and replaced it with an interface window. You can play a pretty efficient strategy game that way, but it's nowhere near as fun.

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Originally Posted by Chezen

Yes I would notice it, the same way I would notice if they stopped rendering my character and replaced it with an interface window. You can play a pretty efficient strategy game that way, but it's nowhere near as fun.

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Calling you out on your strawman. One of the primary purposes of combat and character development is to be visually appealing. The ONLY purpose of a trading system is to be user friendly, scalable, and stable. If it can be done in a visually appealing way, that's great. But when being visually appealing starts hindering those three requirements, it's time to stop pushing it.

as of now like someone said already MW is for the buyers, not for the sellers. This is nice for the non-crafters or the people who only npc stuff. But in the end it will be like a lot of mmos with similar systems - AH aion etc. etc.

you see prices, people undercut, undercut (its an undercut fest already and we have only a few people playing, i dont wanna imagine more people playing it).

The more people undercut the more sellers/crafters won't bother crafting for the economy, only for themselves. People won't sell mats in the wards but npc them (already happening).

In the end the buyers had some cheap stuff at the first place but in the end the wards will be empty since nobody cares selling stuff there. This is most likely goin to happen sooner then most people think. Most mmo AH are empty 1 year after launch because of exactly this undercutting.

Haveing a similar system like in fxi - can be improved in some aspects, makes a seller market and keeps the economy more stable and people have a profit and WILL produce for the people who don't craft rather just for themselves.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Calling you out on your strawman. One of the primary purposes of combat and character development is to be visually appealing. The ONLY purpose of a trading system is to be user friendly, scalable, and stable. If it can be done in a visually appealing way, that's great. But when being visually appealing starts hindering those three requirements, it's time to stop pushing it.

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Wolfie, you (obviously) don't get what some of us are saying. We (some of us) like the shops, We (some of us) like the retainers. It's not a "strawman", it's not even really an argument. I like the idea of the wards being another interactive place to spend my time and play a game.

I get that not everyone likes that, but until SE changes it, that is this game's design. I want to see it work, not throw it out. That is all.

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Originally Posted by Kailok

I understand people like the idea of setting up their own shops, but the way real Bazaars (let's admit it, they're trying for a bazaar here) worked was like a flea market. You would bring the things you had, sell them to a merchant, and then that person would turn it around and sell it for a profit. I'm not saying the wards should be like that. In FFXIV the "merchants" should be hired to sell for you, and then you give them a tax for their services. Not EVERYONE in the city has the potential to be a merchant. The cities need to have NPCs specifically designed for selling your items. Can have a few in the same zone, spread out a bit to reduce area lag which seems to be such a big problem for people right now.

Also, I agree that it doesn't matter how long it takes. What matters to me is that it's unorganized and unstable.

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I really appriciate that at least you try to find some compromise, thank you. :)

The bolded part stands out to me. Obviously the real issue is too many people selling too many different things. SE already said they were going to streamline the crafting items, so that should help, but I wonder if a system could be worked out... that the lower levels have to sell through the general merchant like you say... and work their way to owning a store.

Obviously many, many things would have to be worked out for that idea to work, but that's how ideas start.

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Originally Posted by Anty

as of now like someone said already MW is for the buyers, not for the sellers. This is nice for the non-crafters or the people who only npc stuff. But in the end it will be like a lot of mmos with similar systems - AH aion etc. etc.

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How is it for the buyers when it's more inconvenient than any other system available?

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you see prices, people undercut, undercut (its an undercut fest already and we have only a few people playing, i dont wanna imagine more people playing it).

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That's happening now and there's literally nothing that can be done to stop it. It's a principal of economics that people will compete in prices, because selling more items cheaper and faster is better than selling less items slower, but for more money. Furthermore, people will only undercut until a price stabilizes to its actual worth; items don't get undercut down to nothing, because then trying to acquire or sell them stops being profitable. Regardless, this has nothing to do with MW and everything to do with the game's currency, available items, and the rate at which currency and items enter and leave the economy.

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The more people undercut the more sellers/crafters won't bother crafting for the economy, only for themselves. People won't sell mats in the wards but npc them (already happening).

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Again, nothing to do with MW. Crafters in WOW and Aion still liberally make items for profit on the AH, because once someone purchases that item, it's taken out of the economy PERMANENTLY (thanks to soulbinding).

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In the end the buyers had some cheap stuff at the first place but in the end the wards will be empty since nobody cares selling stuff there. This is most likely goin to happen sooner then most people think. Most mmo AH are empty 1 year after launch because of exactly this undercutting.

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Bull****. Go make a trial account on WOW and Aion and check out how well stocked their AH's are. People only stop selling X item because it stops being profitable, which, for the umpteenth time, has nothing to do with how that item is being sold (AH or MW or Bazaar or whatever).

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Originally Posted by Chezen

Wolfie, you (obviously) don't get what some of us are saying. We (some of us) like the shops, We (some of us) like the retainers. It's not a "strawman", it's not even really an argument. I like the idea of the wards being another interactive place to spend my time and play a game.

I get that not everyone likes that, but until SE changes it, that is this game's design. I want to see it work, not throw it out. That is all.

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Yes, I understand perfectly well that you're emotionally invested in a poor feature. That's why I'm here doing my damned hardest to make logical posts with examples and explanations, so that hopefully, some of you guys will see why it's bad to be emotionally invested in MW, what its weaknesses are, and what the solutions are.

I hope for this thread being scrapped instead.
I can't believe that people think about a Boring and Redundant, yet functional solution like an Auction House rather than trying to give SUGGESTIONS to IMPROVE it and make it ANOTHER FUNCTIONAL CHOICE.

And to add more meat to the refrigerator, THEY DON'T EVEN TRY TO GIVE SUGGESTIONS TO IT because they're F*CKING OBSESSED WITH AN AUCTION [SIZE=5]HOUSE!

So glad there's an Ignore Threads function.
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Originally Posted by Renshi

I hope for this thread being scrapped instead.
I can't believe that people think about a Boring and Redundant, yet functional solution like an Auction House rather than trying to give SUGGESTIONS to IMPROVE it and make it ANOTHER FUNCTIONAL CHOICE.

And to add more meat to the refrigerator, THEY DON'T EVEN TRY TO GIVE SUGGESTIONS TO IT because they're F*CKING OBSESSED WITH AN AUCTION [SIZE=5]HOUSE!

So glad there's an Ignore Threads function.
[/SIZE]

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Awesome. Not like you brought anything of value to the discussion.

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Originally Posted by Chezen

Wolfie, you (obviously) don't get what some of us are saying. We (some of us) like the shops, We (some of us) like the retainers. It's not a "strawman", it's not even really an argument. I like the idea of the wards being another interactive place to spend my time and play a game.

I get that not everyone likes that, but until SE changes it, that is this game's design. I want to see it work, not throw it out. That is all.



I really appriciate that at least you try to find some compromise, thank you. :)

The bolded part stands out to me. Obviously the real issue is too many people selling too many different things. SE already said they were going to streamline the crafting items, so that should help, but I wonder if a system could be worked out... that the lower levels have to sell through the general merchant like you say... and work their way to owning a store.

Obviously many, many things would have to be worked out for that idea to work, but that's how ideas start.

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No offense, but is it worth keeping a system that's flawed in about a hundred different ways that inconveniences EVERYONE just because a certain few people enjoy spending a lot of time checking out different random sales instead of just smoothly getting what they want? If it's immersion you want, browse through player bazaars and actually talk to them, discuss prices, etc. The only argument i'm seeing here is "Some of us like to spend lots of time running around collecting items that you should be able to buy all at once from a single spot". It ISN'T going to work. The central market should be UI based, but the option for player bazaars is always there and people DO use it.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Yes, I understand perfectly well that you're emotionally invested in a poor feature. That's why I'm here doing my damned hardest to make logical posts with examples and explanations, so that hopefully, some of you guys will see why it's bad to be emotionally invested in MW, what its weaknesses are, and what the solutions are.

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Bad to you Wolfie, and yes to other people. Not bad to me. My only personal irritation with the MW is that nothing is ever on the same ward, but even then, irritation is an overstatment. Other people's concerns such as "zombies", "long hallways", "over crowded" and even memorizing the search list, does not bother me. But they are legitimate opinions, so I listen. The fact you don't like them is a legitimate opinion as well.

However, as I said, that is this game's current design. It may or may not change. But any mmo player should know that there will always be something in a game they don't like, as well as there being a group that does like the very thing you hate. If SE changes it to an AH, I will hate it, but that's the way it goes.

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Originally Posted by Renshi

I hope for this thread being scrapped instead.
I can't believe that people think about a Boring and Redundant, yet functional solution like an Auction House rather than trying to give SUGGESTIONS to IMPROVE it and make it ANOTHER FUNCTIONAL CHOICE.

And to add more meat to the refrigerator, THEY DON'T EVEN TRY TO GIVE SUGGESTIONS TO IT because they're F*CKING OBSESSED WITH AN AUCTION [SIZE=5]HOUSE!

So glad there's an Ignore Threads function.
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Yes, I think I am done with this thread. I've said all I have to say. Happy gaming everyone, for what it's worth. :p