I almost included Varshahn in that list actually, but I didn’t really find him worth mentioning in all honesty. He has a clear objective in finding, if not rescuing Azdaja. Once that’s complete, he really has no reason to travel with us, and he’s a national leader character. I could definitely see us teaming up with him briefly in certain storylines like how we continue to with characters like Lyse, Hien and Yugiri, etc. But I can’t see them making him a main traveling companion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso
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09-12-2022, 03:54 AMty_taurus
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09-12-2022, 04:09 AMZanarkand-RonsoThats fair enough, basically he will be a Temporary Party member.Quote:
Originally Posted by ty_taurus
Its always sad to see people go, especially if they turned out to be cool. But Id hate it more if Vitra stayed with us on another bigger journey Just Cause "New Guy"
But we will see, we can always guess, but never actually know how the future unfolds -
09-12-2022, 04:10 AMIscahPrettymuch. I like G'raha and I like the Scions, to varying degrees from specifically liking them to "they're a good ally and haven't done anything to make me dislike them", so I enjoy seeing their interactions and lighter moments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
On the other hand, I find Hildibrand completely unbearable and comic relief with him (if relief is the right term in a storyline with nothing but) just makes me grit my teeth and at best find an occasional line funny.
The custom face is really the only thing they did for the new model, and it's mostly adapted from the existing child-face he had before, possibly without any editing besides stretching it to fit the adult model nicely. Everything else is just standard gear and hairstyle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsiron
Which is not to say that there's no chance of him getting more featured later on, but it's not like they've invested a huge amount of effort into a custom model and are guaranteed to want more use out of it. -
09-12-2022, 04:38 AMMidareyukki:x Yeah I don't think this conversation is being done with much good faith...Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso
I assume he meant "As Krile stands now, she won't be an interesting character. Naturally she needs changes, but we haven't seen any indication of it".Quote:
Adding Krile, in her current form, isn't going to bring us anywhere closer to this goal.
None of her traumas got acknowledged, her mindset wasn't explored. Sure, they'll change things (because they have to), but I fear it might be too little too late? Remains to be seen, for sure.
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You mean your Check-list Archetypes. A Charming Thief, and the Meat Head.
You're both mirroring your flaws.Quote:
Give us a cast as vibrant and unique as those of FFIX, FFX, the Dragon Age games, and so on.
Aveyond is right, we need a bit more diversity. Some have no role in the party, others have a role but no narrative gravitas.
But, other games aren't necessarily more diverse simply because they have a role in the plot and the party. Even in FF9 and 10 you have characters who are "kinda there" like Kimahri.
Zanarkand is right in that a lot of RPGs resort to blank archetypes. We should question these tropes and demand exploration than just "a predictable character pattern".
But tropes exist for a reason: they're frameworks. Using structures like these doesn't make a narrative poor. They can allow us to better understand some characters, their skillset and intuition, justifying their inclusion in the plot. What's important is being able to flesh them out past that initial stereotype, and subverting the role whenever necessary. Tropes exist for narrative purposes, they're healthy. "Charming Thief" can still be endearing WITH plot relevance without blandly applying its generic definition. It's why Joker works, whereas others like Dack Fayden in MtG suck.
And Aveyond does address this somewhat:
To aveyond,Quote:
People are sick of the "but he's your little brother!" trope. People are sick of the "sassy smart lady" trope. People are sick of seeing the men in the cast be treated as if they were less intelligent than the aforementioned sassy smart ladies.
I'd say both. It's important to defy expectations of masculinity and femininity. Men have drama and emotion, women can be unattractive. At the end of the day, the important bit is having a character worth giving a damn about.Quote:
Heroines should have compelling arcs, replete with emotion, loss, drama, and sacrifices. Male heroes should sport more traditionally attractive physiques, and rather than gush about their traumas or be reduced to occasionally saying some fighting words, should be allowed to showcase their struggles and how they overcome their inner turmoil in appealing, non-whiny ways.
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09-12-2022, 04:47 AMZanarkand-Ronso
On the Topic of being belittled, nobodies opinions should be belittled.
It doesnt matter if an opinion is from here on the forums, in-game, on Reddit, Twitter, Youtube, etc...everyone has one. And everyone is Valid.
To say players who are happy are over-represented, is just dismissive, and frankly insulting. And you have the nerve to get upset when people disagree with you, and you talk about being silenced because you arnt part of the Majority that is quite happy and enjoying the game. "They arn't Real Fans" how condescending...
You dont have to like it, but the facts are there is a bigger fanbase that like how things are, VS the people who dislike things. And this isn't to say anybodies opinions matter more then others, but to act like the lower percentage should be listened to more then the Higher Percentage is just silly. Almost as silly as saying FFXIV needs to be like other games and needs to copy their structure to succeed.
Ill keep saying it because Im not convinced you understand.
You say things that are agreeable and make sense, but you also say Dumb things that are just laughable.
Especially when you talk about these Standards of High Fantasy and Serious tones, while wearing a Modern Streetwear outfit, with a signature of you riding the Regalia.
And then sit here and ignore the Growth of at least 2 characters; saying they had no meaningful growth, or silly things like "They didnt suffer enough." -
09-12-2022, 04:53 AMMidareyukkiHe could just be a troll at the end of the day. Wasn't there a highlander guy known for making wild troll threads before?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso
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09-12-2022, 04:55 AMaveyond-dreamsI can concede to this somewhat, though in FFXIV's case it feels as though there are more characters that fall into the defying expectations thing than just...being well-designed and maintaining a likeable on-screen presence. In Endwalker especially it does feel like the male members of the cast like Thancred and Estinien were just Kimahris that had very little involvement or impact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Midareyukki
The story could have easily taken place without them, and that should not have been the case for Endwalker. Then there's characters like G'raha Tia who just have to tell us how much they care and want to be with us...when the more stoic and hardened men of the cast get so little attention compared to G'raha Tia's role as a "comfort character." It makes for an experience I can't recommend to other people who share my tastes.
Too much focus on the catboy, too much preaching from the ideologically-driven elf kid, not enough development or heroics coming from the two men intended to serve as the party's muscle, combined with the permanent presence of a catgirl lore teacher whose attitude makes her quite frustrating to deal with. How in the world people came to view such characters as their "friends" is beyond me, they haven't been through half the struggles that parties go through together in most other RPGs. My frame of reference is made up of too many other titles with more effective characterization to be able to view the Scions in such a way.
If the main characters in each season of a TV show can all have development over the course of the episodes, then it also isn't unreasonable to ask the same of FFXIV. -
09-12-2022, 05:02 AMZanarkand-RonsoI never did understand the whole "Good Faith/Bad Faith" Argument thing XD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Midareyukki
But, I do like and can agree with how you broke it all down. Feels abit more rounded.
Yes, I can agree and understand the Usefulness of tropes and how they round out and balance things and bring the good out of others for character development. But, I also think as shown in FFXIV that it doesnt always have to be executed the same way. I do find it boring how most games have Checklist Archetypes . This character is obviously that, there is the Token Character, there is the one Girl, thats the dumb strong one....Sure they work in most cases, but I hate how its used in almost EVERY case. I could be alone here. Same with story structure, I dont like everything being the same. So I personally quite enjoy FFXIV how it tells things in its own way and dont follow the Exact Same story beats.
I like how our supporting cast are Colleges united under the same cause and agree and work together. Conflict amongst the group and bashing heads and disagreeing is natural, but can be unproductive and lead to dumb predictable things such as a villain getting away, which I find tiresome.
But anyway, Ill agree that Kryile will of course HAVE to go through changes. So it is silly to argue "In her Current Form" . Because now that we know there will be an outfit change, and and that she is taking more of a Lead role, and the VA wants to be abit Goofier, then yes, this means her "Current Form" will evolve.
So it kinda makes no sense to talk about it, when we know its gonna change.
If that makes sense. -
09-12-2022, 05:03 AMTatianaYeah, and I feel like with the fact we're supposed to be embarking on an entirely new story that takes us to entirely new places they could certainly develop characters that are Hrothgar and Viera. While they may have been rare in the regions the stories currently taken place in, they could be more concentrated in new places. The more they saturate the main cast with Elves, Au'Ra, Mi'qote, and Lalafels the less memorable they all become. Especially when so many of the personalities and mannerisms of characters among those races already seem to be almost identical.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReynTime
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09-12-2022, 05:06 AMBoblawblah
I am concerned with how they're going to change her, because as people have noted, she WILL have to change to play a more leading role. Suddenly making her clumsy, or goofy is going to come across way too ham-fisted, I'm not sure how they're going to gradually change her without making it seem like Lyse 2.0 "KRILE IS NOW IMPORTANT, YOU LIKE HER". We'll have to wait and see.