New summoner is unacceptable

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

The comparison to WoW is a bit of a dumb angle because, for one, only one of their three specs has anything to do with dots. For two, the dots aren't really what have people upset. It's the fact that the old flavor and rotation was totally removed and replaced with something with a fraction of the complexity and depth. If the new rotation had any actual depth to it, you wouldn't see nearly this level of angst, dots or not. How many jobs need to have their depth destroyed before people are satisfied?

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Old summoner honestly was not complex it was bloated like it hadn't pooped in a month. It needed addressed and it was. Is the new summoner perfect? Absolutely not I believe it needs tuning maybe even more skills. I am not 90 summoner yet so I with hold final judgements til then. From what I have played of it so far I have enjoyed.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

These toxic new summoner mains really are the bees knees. Calling old summoner mains morons and so forth for their jobs getting obliterated, coming from a place of utter selfishness.

Half the time the non-mains want adjustments to jobs they never touch, all for the glint and glam not for the gameplay like all other summoner mains want

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You are acting as if you were a moron which is why people are calling you a moron.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

These toxic new summoner mains really are the bees knees. Calling old summoner mains morons and so forth for their jobs getting obliterated, coming from a place of utter selfishness.

Half the time the non-mains want adjustments to jobs they never touch, all for the glint and glam not for the gameplay like all other summoner mains want

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I feel this a lot. Most of the time people are just focusing on the fact that egi are pretty now, and how it is a "real" summoner (uh... I still don't feel this tbh), not if the process of managing them is engaging/interesting, what is good about it and what isn't. I get that summoner did have an aesthetic crisis specially if compared to summoners in the rest of the FF universe (although FFXIV has a completely different combat and comparing them is useless... FFXIV summoner will never act like other ff's summoners and that's it). As a healer I often deal with this a lot, people that barely dedicate their time to a class having a strong opinion about it and trying to shut down the ones that actually main the class and often have very different concerns.

I do not get how people thought old smn was bloated. It did have an identity crisis I will give people that.

Though bloated I just did not see it. I think the main reason people are upset is because those that enjoyed smn playstyle before have nothing now. I am glad those that want a more classic smn feel got closer to that. I just wish it did not come at the expense of other else many enjoyed.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

I do not get how people thought old smn was bloated. It did have an identity crisis I will give people that.

Though bloated I just did not see it. I think the main reason people are upset is because those that enjoyed smn playstyle before have nothing now. I am glad those that want a more classic smn feel got closer to that. I just wish it did not come at the expense of other else many enjoyed.

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I can understand the complaints. Egi-Assault and Egi-Assault 2 were mostly carbon copy spells that you used to build up Further Ruin. It could have easily been one ability with four charges. Then our dots and aoes were kinda all over the place. You had two dots (Bio, Miasma) one with a cast time and they could be spread around with Bane. Gardua was the aoe summon but ifrit had his dot. Looking at BLM right now. It has its single target DOT, its aoe DOT and some procs. More than good enough. The old summoner wasn't without its flaws but like I've been saying. This new summoner isn't better. The real fun I had with the old summoner was building up for the bahamut/phoenix dps windows. That's just not there anymore.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I enjoy how it's only the pro-New SMN posters on this thread dropping slurs and insults, very cool.

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Toxic casualism in action

What I would have done is...

Combine Egi-Assault 1 and 2 into a single ability. As you leveled it would gain more charges and it would always give you Further Ruin when used. Maybe decouple the ability from our pets and rename it to something else but not necessary.

Get rid of Bio and Miasma. Keep Tri-Diaster but make it one dot that's single target and instant cast with a short cooldown. Dreadwyrm Trance/Phoenix would not refresh Tri-disaster. Keep Bane. Maybe get rid our of pets entirely and readjust Tri-Diaster's potentecy to compensate. Also not necessary.

Energy Siphon/Energy Drain no longer generate Aetherflow. Instead Aetherflow regenerates at specific intervals. Remove the dot requirement for Fester's extra damage.

Get rid of Dreadwyrm Trance and the Dreadwyrm aether cost for Summon Bahamut. Keep the rest of Bahamut and Phoenix the same.

Give us a new summon like Alexander. Have it wreck stuff. Maybe roll with the idea of hard cast times that absolutely melt face.

Damnit. I really want to play that class.

I'm by no means an expert DPS, but I did understand and perform well with old summoner and I'm switching to new SMN as my main this expansion.

With that out of the way honestly the main thing that seems to be lacking with new SMN in my estimation is it feels like I should have more to weave in between GCDs. It feels like this so strongly that I've sifted through my abilities several times looking for that one thing that I must be missing.

I'm still below 86/90 on SMN so no idea if it'll feel better at level cap but overall it doesn't feel *bad* to me, just kind of clunky. I'm used to a really set DPS timeline with BRD, but BRD has the randomness of procs to throw in and I basically think that's what SMN lacks.

SMN is not that bad after lvl 86 IMO

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Originally Posted by Sunako

SMN is not that bad after lvl 86 IMO

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Almost there lol. Finally got past the error 2002 raid boss.

I just hit 90 last night. Summoning the larger sized primals feels awesome.

I love the rework of SMN though there are a few issues I’ve noticed.
When cycling between summons I’m left with a second or two waiting for the next spell or summon to use in rotation.
I wonder if the summons themselves (and ruin IV) being charged to OGCD May help with that.

It does feel awkward summoning the primal and waiting a full GCD to use gemshine or astro flow/Phoenix skill name. (I forgot the name)