Customizable pronouns

Also, to the OP who keeps posting and calling people bigots. I don't think you understand what that word means. Here:

big·ot
/ˈbiɡət/
noun
a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.

If anything, this sounds more like you than the people actually discussing it, OP.

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Originally Posted by Izanagi_Fiaresu

I just assume everyone is a dude and call them dude or bro until corrected and then I use their preferred Pronouns.

This is the list that I was speaking of. https://genderfluidsupport.tumblr.com/gender. Hey I don't have an issue with whatever anyone wants to call themselves. They aren't hurting anyone. I just think the amount of work that it would take wouldn't be worth it. Hell think about it like this? Minority groups that are larger still don't have any representation in FFXIV. I.E PoC, Natives or w/e. So FFXIV has never really been that inclusive.

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Representing specific cultures is a very different thing to genders, which are a thing that all humans have regardless of culture.

There's no reason to expect to see native Americans in Eorzea (although actually we know they're over in the New World, and are brought up in the blue mage quest), and we can set characters to have all kinds of skin colours.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

In a thousand years, when archeologists are digging up bones of today's civilization, what gender do you think they're going to classify the skeletons as? If you answer anything other than "male" or "female", then you're denying reality. If you want to headcanon yourself, in game and/or out, as something else, go for it. Just don't expect, nor demand, that others pander to your imagination.

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The whole point of this debate is that gender isn't as clear-cut as [male body = male gender] and [female body = female gender].

It's clearly a very real thing for people whose minds are built that way. They're not "putting it on" for fun - why would they when other people react to the concept so badly?

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

Even 'they/them' is supposed to refer to multiple and not an individual. It's actually grammatically incorrect to use 'they/them' as a singular. It's plural.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

Dates to the 14th century, if Wikipedia is correct.

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

This has been put forward time and time again, and I have yet to see an argument against this one deal-breaking point. This is from an English speaking standpoint only. It's extremely complicated already in English, it's going to be a lot more complicated in languages that do not use/have a neutral pronoun, and even those that do - it's not correct to use it in the sentences that already exist.

Even 'they/them' is supposed to refer to multiple and not an individual. It's actually grammatically incorrect to use 'they/them' as a singular. It's plural, though I will admit that times change and this has slowly to started to move from the norm to a singular use. But for now, it's still considered plural.

As an add on, I believe this is also the reason why most authors who write in English; when they have a character that is nonbinary or something of the sort, they don't say they/them - they use the characters name as it simply flows better.

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Singular they has been around since the 15th century. It's been used as a singular pronoun for longer than it has as a plural pronoun. So it's very much grammatically correct. Changing pronouns is very simple in English. I'm aware it's more complicated in French, German, and Japanese but I'm not a fluent speaker of any of those languages so I can't speak for them.

For those playing the cutesy game of trying to reflect bigot back to me, I didn't say everyone who disagrees is a bigot. Just that this thread has attracted a bunch, such as the people that are specifically invalidating nonbinary identities and trans people.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

Dates to the 14th century, if Wikipedia is correct.

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It is still heavily argued to be plural. Even if it was used back in the 14th century, it can just be argued that those works were grammatically incorrect. Shakespeare does that a lot. Just because it's old doesn't mean that it's correct. Hopefully, in the future it will be adjusted so that it is widely accepted as singular, right now, it is not. You'll still get marked down for using 'they/them' as singular in papers for example.

What you posted shows a lot of arguments on how people avoid using they/them as singular, preferring to write around it than use it.

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Originally Posted by cinnamonoreo

Singular they has been around since the 15th century. It's been used as a singular pronoun for longer than it has as a plural pronoun. So it's very much grammatically correct. Changing pronouns is very simple in English. I'm aware it's more complicated in French, German, and Japanese but I'm not a fluent speaker of any of those languages so I can't speak for them.

For those playing the cutesy game of trying to reflect bigot back to me, I didn't say everyone who disagrees is a bigot. Just that this thread has attracted a bunch, such as the people that are specifically invalidating nonbinary identities and trans people.

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It's no cutesy game. Pot calling kettle black.

I'd appreciate it if they gave us the customization option to change our arms into wings because I identify as a pigeon.
Or I want my Au'ra to identify as a Lalafell.

Yeah no, don't waste time on things that would only please a very tiny minority of players.

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Originally Posted by cinnamonoreo

Hi there!

So I'm nonbinary and it's been a real treat seeing gender neutral pronouns being used for the pixies in Il Mheg and for our adorable branch. For the WoL, though, there's always only he/him or she/her. I was wondering if it might be possible to set different pronouns for written dialogue and system messages, either through the character creation process or something in the options menu? It would be a nice little bit of inclusion to have in the game.

Obviously, voiced lines that use pronouns don't necessarily need to change in the process.

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No.

Pixies have different rules for their genders or lack thereof compared to both people in real life and playable races in the game. Yes, you are free to believe whatever you like about yourself, but not only does that not make it true, it's also unfair of you to demand that others refer to you under a false pretense. Also, since people are literally required to undergo a surgical procedure in Japan to make sure they can't breed if they change genders, and the developers of this game are based in Japan, I really don't think the entire transgender agenda is going to fly here.

/thread

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Originally Posted by cinnamonoreo

Singular they has been around since the 15th century. It's been used as a singular pronoun for longer than it has as a plural pronoun. So it's very much grammatically correct. Changing pronouns is very simple in English. I'm aware it's more complicated in French, German, and Japanese but I'm not a fluent speaker of any of those languages so I can't speak for them.

For those playing the cutesy game of trying to reflect bigot back to me, I didn't say everyone who disagrees is a bigot. Just that this thread has attracted a bunch, such as the people that are specifically invalidating nonbinary identities and trans people.

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No one in this thread has talked about Trans people at all.

This is exactly why people are fed up with this gender stuff. If i wasn't afraid of being banned from the game i love i would give you some harsh truths but i'll bite my tongue

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Originally Posted by cinnamonoreo

Singular they has been around since the 15th century. It's been used as a singular pronoun for longer than it has as a plural pronoun. So it's very much grammatically correct. Changing pronouns is very simple in English. I'm aware it's more complicated in French, German, and Japanese but I'm not a fluent speaker of any of those languages so I can't speak for them.

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Language involves and as of today people don't use "they/them" as singular anymore. In german it would be "ihr/sie" and so much more complicated as it's only ever used in plural. However "sie" is also the german word for "she" so only feminin or "Sie" as a polite way to adress an adult or elder regardless of gender. So there is no way to translate that. The only neutral we have is "it" so "es" but it's used for objects, or children. But I know you people don't want to use the already existing neutral one. So in the end all our nouns have a gender, our version of "THE" is either "Der, Die" or "Das" depending on it's gender. I hope you can imagine that it's all but simple.

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

It is still heavily argued to be plural. Even if it was used back in the 14th century, it can just be argued that those works were grammatically incorrect. Shakespeare does that a lot. Just because it's old doesn't mean that it's correct. Hopefully, in the future it will be adjusted so that it is widely accepted as singular, right now, it is not. You'll still get marked down for using 'they/them' as singular in papers for example.

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It's very widely accepted as singular. You just rarely notice when you use it as singular until someone makes some noise about it. We naturally use singular they when referring to someone whose gender we don't know, for instance. Arguing that it's exclusively plural is fairly recent historically.