The Problem with Paladin

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Originally Posted by Zangetsu

Be nice if they gave us guard back but slightly different.

Guard: hide behind your shield but lose the ability to attack or perform actions. % blocked varies with STR. Effect fades upon reuse. Recast :00.

This could be usefull for tanking multiple enemies or for enemies that hit extremely hard. You wouldn't use it in a general situation but it would make PLD feel more specialized in the art of the shield. Make us feel like we have more control over the damage we take. You can gain some emnity then hide behind your shield then when you feel emnity may shift you can drop shield and gain more emnity.

Better shield proc rate would be great as another option too.

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I love the guard idea we should be able to hide behind shield and cut dmg in half. Ifrit would be so mad at us. Also being able to do that alone would greatly buff outmanuever and aegis boon due to not needing shield to proc it would be guaranteed. Just wouldnt be able to use phalanx.

WAR the way it is made the class fun again. If they nerf it that's weak

Actually looking at WAR AF most of the pieces are on par defense wise with PLD's AF. I'm kinda shocked considering all the crit/enmity/damage bonuses that are attached to the gear as well. I was under the impression when they developed WAR it was supposed to be more of an HP/DPS tank not a job that could do that and compete somewhat defensibly with PLD, WAR should at least have to sacrifice DPS in some way to be on par defensively. Or maybe reverse roles and give PLD a way to sacrifice defense to up DPS significantly so they can at least be in a more flexible role when not tanking.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

.......One thing I don't understand is the Q/A team used these new jobs for testing and went through new raid dungeons... so why couldn't they figure this out when they tried out PLD. Like JP side said and what I posted on my thread... it's fine the devs are making adjustments but what were their original plan behind how it was released? There must of been a reason why the jobs released this way after testing process Q/A team went through so instead of just listening to players feedbacks right away and saying we'll fix it! we kind of want to know, why it was released like this in the first place??

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Perhaps they weren't testing them for the current battles but on the future ones like Garuda or other upcoming dungeons/primals/etc that they will be giving us and PLD will be the choice tank for it. I don't know just a guess ^^ They really need to make GLA/PLD something special over MRD/WAR, they should know by now that players will take the class/job that can tank/big damage over a class/job than tanks/teeny-tiny damage. :/

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Originally Posted by Camate

To all the players who don the gear of the Gallant or just like to look at those who do, I have good news!

In patch 1.21a we will be making adjustments to paladins, mainly focusing on their actions and we will continue to adjust paladin and other jobs moving forward.

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Hi Camate,

Thanks for the update. This certainly sounds like a step in the right direction, but I wanted to also voice my concern (as others have after your announcement):

• You mention the adjustments to Paladin will be "mainly focusing on their actions", but what about the *core*, fundamental changes many have been bringing up on this thread and other threads? Will Yoshida-san & the Combat Team be adjusting any of these core problems with Paladin?
  • Improving Block Rate
  • Improving Inherent Defense (while in Paladin Job)
  • Improving Inherent Enmity Gain (some global boost while on Paladin Job)
    
  • Improving Other Damage Mitigation Options

These core problems lie outside of just adjusting Paladin Weaponskills & Actions. The core formula for calculating Block Rate (especially on Bosses) needs to be looked at.

As Kaeko has pointed out (and the Dev Team should know this), the value to get noticeable damage mitigation via Defense is so high (vs. Bosses) that it's better to just go with HP builds, so something should be done about either (A) adjusting formulas for Defense vs. High Level Enemies / Bosses; or (B) Paladin's core Defense when switching to the Job should be dramatically raised.

And to be a desirable choice over Warrior (or at least within the ballpark), since Warrior has Foresight (& Parrying), and gain Featherfoot (Evade), along with very good DPS / Damage (and AOE Damage to boot), there needs to be something on Paladin to help "balance" them in their own unique way.

Whether its an inherent Enmity Boost, or other Damage Mitigation Options, this should be looked at.

Madruk and Phobos have brought up some very key points: With the way Dungeons are designed, even if you "adjust Paladin actions" and, say, Spirits Within does more damage... that still won't incentivize people to pick Paladin over a Warrior in these raids: The Warrior can outdamage the Paladin, and mitigate damage pretty well, and hold hate very well...

So Paladin needs something significant to make them desirable in this content again. In other words, there needs to be some distinctive, noticeable change and some inherent advantage / characteristic that a Paladin has that no other Job has. Its own flavor / standout quality.

Otherwise, people will go with Warrior.

Please pass along our additional questions to Yoshida-san & the Team.

Thanks! _(._.)_

whoa i found the colors

Just my two cents, but the PLD is FAIL. Horrible compared to the GLA. Why? Let me explain.

1. PLD has Holy Succor but loses 2nd Wind - Yes it can heal other people but has casting time. Now if you know what a TANK does, TANKS gets hit....alot. Which means many, many interrupted heals. Not forgetting to mention you need stand still now too. >< This skill is practically useless in fights if you are tanking. If you were to use this skil las an off tank, sure cover and this will be awesome. But PLD dmg is not good and its much better to have a WHM in its place.

2. Loss of featherfoot which is a 2nd Aegis Boon in ways that regens a little MP. This skill is far better than Hollowed Ground.

3. Hollowed Ground is good but not very useful because it has a short duration, long Cooldown and only blocks physical. So using this is only useful on endgame content, but all endgame content do an array of physical and non-physical attacks. So many times the hollowed ground only block 1 to 2 attacks. Featherfoot accomplishes this very same thing but you can use it continally throughout the fight!

4. PLD only tank with AE taunts with no AE attacks or high dmg attacks to retain hate. Basically how its designed now, PLD need to continually AE taunt over and over to keep hate on group mobs. But at the same time WHM, BLM, WARRIOR are gaining more hate through, heals, AE spells, or attacks. Which almost always results in mobs jumping off of PLD.

5. Low HP: PLD have ~3000hp at r50. Warrior has ~3800 HP. Paladins dont really have more Def that Warrior. Whats the justification of 800 less HP?

Bottom line, I feel the PLD is a nerf and not an improvement over GLA. Only thing I see PLD has over GLA is the ability to wear that insane Heavy Darklight Armor and that little nifty aura that heals AE. But even that should be made a constant thing. To make PLD more playable, I think the following changes is necessary:

1) a low dmg enmity building ae attack/combo
2) Make Holy Succor a skill not spell or if you must keep the cast time, just make it non interuptable
3) 800 more life.
4) something to replace featherfoot .... for GLA, feather foot and Aegis Boon was my most valued skills as a tank. Hollowed Ground, does not compare to feather foot. Throughout a fight, I value featherfoot wayyyy more than hollowed ground.

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Originally Posted by Treach

Adjust other jobs as in nerfing warrior? ;-;

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that's what i heard! and that makes me a sad panda.

btw good points zergasaur. gonna add mine as well which are basically the same

1. low hp
2. lack of aoe enmity
3. blocking and shields
4. defense
5. defensive abilities

fixes

1. aoe enmity
2. total overhaul of blocking and shields
3. defense
4. defensive abilities

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Originally Posted by Camate

To all the players who don the gear of the Gallant or just like to look at those who do, I have good news!

In patch 1.21a we will be making adjustments to paladins, mainly focusing on their actions and we will continue to adjust paladin and other jobs moving forward.

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Nice..are they making the AF useful now too? :)

Too keep it simple please by all means improve PLD however it needs to be done but DO NOT NERF WAR or any other classes for that matter. Improving classes is the better way to go. :)