DRK Consolidated Feedback Thread

seeing more use out of the blood gauge.
having more impact when using dark arts.
regaining better forms of mitigation.
balancing the skills to not be bogged down by what the other tanks can do, and solidify DRK's unique place in the game.
reintroducing some level of complexity to the class and how it is to be played, both for casual and hardcore players.
and ostensibly, making the class more enjoyable for those to play it from 30 onwards.

sounds like a decent summation of what people are looking for, yes? or am I off in any place?

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Originally Posted by Tint

nobody cares for that 5k shield. except warriors who like to point out how awesome a 5k shield is... (do they even believe their own words?)

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I don't get this. If nobody cared then why so much use in savage? why not use WAR over DRK in savage?

Wouldn't the world's best min-maxers know best if it mattered or not?

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

seeing more use out of the blood gauge.

I would honestly rather see DRK generate BG faster.

having more impact when using dark arts.

I think it's fine.

regaining better forms of mitigation.

This times a million.

reintroducing some level of complexity to the class and how it is to be played, both for casual and hardcore players.

Yes.

and ostensibly, making the class more enjoyable for those to play it from 30 onwards.

Yes.

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Originally Posted by Tegernako

I don't get this. If nobody cared then why so much use in savage? why not use WAR over DRK in savage?

Wouldn't the world's best min-maxers know best if it mattered or not?

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A lot of people DO use WAR over DRK in savage. Most world first groups took DRK for insurance, and because its DPS rotation was easier and less punishing (at the time, now WAR is back to being fuck-all easy again if you know the fight even just a little bit). But nowadays, TBN isn't worth much. There's nothing it can mitigate that the MT isn't perfectly capable of mitigating with their own CDs, and 5K isn't enough to wholly replace a CD in their rotation. So no, TBN is not really utility:

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Originally Posted by Lyth

The main problem that I have with the word "utility" in these discussions is that it's often used to describe things that often don't confer a benefit. I can shield a WAR with TBN on a tankbuster for 25% of my MP and a minor dps loss, but there's no point in doing so if they're more than capable of surviving on their own by having access to largest free mitigation suite in the game. It's fun, yes. If it's balanced as a dps gain (as it was in 4.01 for a whopping 4 potency per use), then it's just a personal dps gain, not utility.

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I like most things about playing DRK but one thing that's always made me feel kinda weird doing is the constant spam of Dark Arts. I get that due to its MP cost it's meant to force us to make choices on what ability to 'supercharge' but in practicality it feels kinda (I hate using this word) clunky.

I'd rather see them just bake all Dark Arts effects in to the abilities, up the mana cost of all the abilities to compensate with not needing to use Dark Arts, then re-increase the "complexity" of our rotation to compensate for not having to hit DA before every combo finisher...maybe give us Scourge back, giving us another element of the rotation to manage, then tune Scourge's damage up or down in order to close whatever minoscule gap is left between us and the other tanks.

However it seems all the tanks lost their "upkeep this DOT forever" ability so I'm not seeing that as likely...so maybe they can increase mana cost a bit more than simply a compensatory amount for baking in Dark Arts, making MP management a bit more of a pressing matter? MP management has always seemed like a defining element of DRK gameplay as it were, so I feel it would be fitting.

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Originally Posted by Tegernako

I don't get this. If nobody cared then why so much use in savage? why not use WAR over DRK in savage?

Wouldn't the world's best min-maxers know best if it mattered or not?

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you should maaaaaybe read the rest of my post, where i explained why xD lots of magic tankbusters in savage > DRK has a powerfull magic cooldown wich he can use once a minute, wich makes him the best maintank in savage.

i mean that 5k shield is nice and all, but not the mandatory utility wich WAR like to see the DRK has. all that WARs see is that they have no utility at all, so they point at TBN and are telling us how powerfull it is. but hands down it's just a glorified stoneskin.

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Originally Posted by Tint

lots of magic tankbusters in savage > DRK has a powerfull magic cooldown wich he can use once a minute, wich makes him the best maintank in savage.

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That's just not true anymore. Dark Mind isn't as big as it used to be in 3.X, even on heavily-magical fights. Now PLD has better magic mitigation than DRK, and WAR has no issue with tank busters, magic damage or not. They can use Holmgang every 3min, and for the rest they have Vengeance and ToB on 2min CD only, Equilibrium on 60sec, and if needed, they can IB at almost any time since there is no penalty on switching stances anymore, while having access to the same cross-role actions as the other tanks (Rampart, Conv, Awareness for O3S, Reprisal). The only reason why DRK was taken over WAR for world prog is just what Syzzle said above :

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

A lot of people DO use WAR over DRK in savage. Most world first groups took DRK for insurance, and because its DPS rotation was easier and less punishing (at the time, now WAR is back to being fuck-all easy again if you know the fight even just a little bit).

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That's all.

some morning feelings for the DRK diary

Blood Price:

Restores partial MP when damage is taken.
*Reduces Spell and Ability MP cost by 25%
*Increases own HP recovery via healing magic and health absorbs by 15%.

For Shadow Wall and Dark Mind, I'd like adjustments to recast and DA effects for these abilities. I'd like something where the result would be: the emphasis/productivity that DADM has currently is given to SW (and a DASW). Then, DM can function as a free TBN occasionally in magical content (the MP saved from not using TBN converted to DPS). So SW+TBN or SW+DM.

That to me is a 'better' magical advantage for DRK. Right now the advantage is too heavily skewed with DM being a heavy mitigation CD. DM carries too much water for something niche, letting DRK hop one-footed through content. Give that emphasis to Shadow Wall (which mitigates both damage types), and make Dark Mind a pre-TBN TBN or have some other unique additional effect.

A neat boost to DRK's DPS and a good way to make it more engaging and reward more skilled play is to A: Put DP back where it was and B: have Dark Arts reduce the recast time on Carve and DP by like 2s or something per cast. In this way you have more frequent checks to see if you're managing your mana properly, because DP and Carve will be coming up more frequently and if you lack the MP to use them because you've been DAing a little too much you can't use them/Dark Arts them. In this way you reward skilled play with higher DPS while punishing less skilled play with lower DPS.

We could also do this with Shadow Wall, where every cast of DA reduces its recast time by 5s. This would go a long way towards giving it parity with Vengeance as well.

Blood Weapon should be useable in Grit. If not then Grit needs to be an OGCD and not cost MP. Swapping is so easy and fun on Warrior and the exact opposite on Dark Knight.

It's probably been brought up already, but playing DRK feels pretty bad at the old level caps. Now that I've tried it at 70 it's very fun, but I think the fact that DRK revolves so much around the blood gauge, yet doesn't even unlock it until 62, is bad design.

What if some of the blood skills were given to us earlier? Let us have the gauge and Bloodspiller at 50 so that we can start using it in that content range, then give us another blood skill by 60. Or, maybe create a new blood ability and have it unlocked early on.

Regardless of the exact changes, I think the job would feel much better if our entire core mechanic wasn't locked til nearly max level!