Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

Newsflash to all tanks: Tenacity increases your damage as well, stop wearing slaying accessories, kthxbai.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

Someone in Novice Network yesterday was talking about having run into a Bard that macro'd Katy Perry song lines to their song rotations.

He got booted out after the 5 minute duty start kick restriction got lifted.

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i ran into that bard lol i thought it was funny, and spiced up a run. the dude shoulda communicated to said bard about it instead of vote kicking him out over something petty.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

i ran into that bard lol i thought it was funny, and spiced up a run. the dude shoulda communicated to said bard about it instead of vote kicking him out over something petty.

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Is that petty though? How often is a bard singing a song? Does this bard have non-macrod/simple macrod versions of these skills he could use instead if people dont like? Im sitting here thinking 5 mins is more then i could take and i might have just eaten the penalty and done something else - and i say that as a DPS who might have spent an hour queing for this dungeon.

This community really is glorious sometimes.

Doma Castle. I join as a RDM, my co-dps is a lvl 68dragoon. Doing as much damage as a BAD dragoon in the end of HW.

I tell the DRG to put effort.

"Lol? I hit for 7k!" ....Yeah...once per minute or why is nothing dying?

Stuff keeps going, drg doesnt improve. I initiate a votekick. It gets rejected while the rest of the party throws "dude, wtf?" and "Just stop" at me.

"OK then. I will stop....putting effort, too".


So, i spammed only one skill...and did the same amount of dmg like the drg. Our healer did 0 dps.
So everything dies beautifully slowly.

After second boss, they insult me as noob and as a "little b*tch" and that they dont wanna continue with me. They initiate a vote abandon.
I let them know that all I did was the same as the dragoon to show them what its like when both dps slack.

After getting out of the dungeon, I check my contacts and see all people from different servers. Why is everyone so willing to carry random strangers? DPS is easily replaced.


Is it mean what I did? Maybe. Is it fair the dragoon apparently gets away with OBVIOUS slacking while I get called out for doing the same? No.
I didnt wanna carry them. I wanted them to see what its like when no one does their job. Probably didnt help because ...some people really cant count 1 and 1 together.


I still dont care. I'd rather lose some time than being the only one who puts effort.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

I'd rather lose some time than being the only one who puts effort.

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And this is why the community overall doesn't improve.

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

And this is why the community overall doesn't improve.

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not sure how you mean that?

IMO, nothing will change or improve if everyone just silently carries everyone without ever speaking up.

How would the community improve if I had just carried everyone without saying a word?

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

Stuff keeps going, drg doesnt improve. I initiate a votekick. It gets rejected while the rest of the party throws "dude, wtf?" and "Just stop" at me.

"OK then. I will stop....putting effort, too".
...
After getting out of the dungeon, I check my contacts and see all people from different servers. Why is everyone so willing to carry random strangers? DPS is easily replaced.
...
I still dont care. I'd rather lose some time than being the only one who puts effort.

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Many people view "Not being a jerk" as a better stat than DPS.

Very few people get better when you just scream "get better" at them.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

not sure how you mean that?

IMO, nothing will change or improve if everyone just silently carries everyone without ever speaking up.

How would the community improve if I had just carried everyone without saying a word?

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Thing is, if you politely tell them what is wrong, and they change, you did something good.
If they don't change, and you carry on doing your usual things, nothing changes.
If you however decide to go down to their skill level, and stop giving a flying f*** about anything, and do no dps, you make things worse.

The mentatlity "if they don't, i won't" is not helping anyone, but just making the situation worse. That is what i meant.

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Originally Posted by winsock

Many people view "Not being a jerk" as a better stat than DPS.

Very few people get better when you just scream "get better" at them.

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I see "not giving a damn" as "being a jerk".

I also told the DRG to use AoE when there was a big pack to which he replied "rotation".

I dont know, seemed like an auto-attack/1-button rotation. Told him AoE Rotation > single target rotation during packs, but alas no improvement.
I would rather not try to point out any skills in particular when I havent touched my lvl 60 dragoon in SB yet.
They gotta know what their AoE skills are.

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

Thing is, if you politely tell them what is wrong, and they change, you did something good.
If they don't change, and you carry on doing your usual things, nothing changes.
If you however decide to go down to their skill level, and stop giving a flying f*** about anything, and do no dps, you make things worse.

The mentatlity "if they don't, i won't" is not helping anyone, but just making the situation worse. That is what i meant.

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I did tell him to use AoE on packs. I cant give him a rotation of his job, because I only have a lvl 60 dragoon which I havent touched yet in SB.
I do not know all of their changes to point out skills in particular. But when I see that someone is refusing to do AoE despite pointing it out
and in general,is doing A LOT LESS than what you could do at lvl 60, thats already quite inconsiderate of that person. I did nearly the same dmg as him repeatingly pushing ONE button.
ONE button. So I would like to say that I at least tried to raise his awareness of using AoE skills,which he refused because "rotation".

So thats when I went down to their skill level. I would not say that it worsens the general situation.

If you raise a child without ever scolding it or telling it whats wrong, you'll raise an arrogant,selfish brat. Same principle can be applied to this.
People need to get off their "You are very special, no matter what anyone says" millenial trip. Nothing wrong with a bit of harsh reality sometimes.
This time, it was only me telling that dragoon to improve. Next time, it may be someone else. Maybe over time it will get the dragoon to start thinking.
Maybe it wont. But if no one says a word, its more than likely that it wont ever change. If I do speak up, there is at least a chance.
There's a reason why the general community in MMORPGs used to be way better years ago...because there was no cross-server stuff and if you were bad or just simply being
a d*ck, you got a reputation for it and no one wanted to party with you. You bet it was a good remedy for many people.

> Queue for Frontlines
> Notice one person run to the corner of the map away from everything and everyone
> Don't say anything
> Almost 10 minutes pass
> Call the guy out, place map marker next to him to show rest of the alliance
> "lol sorry was on the phone"
> Initiate vote kick
> vote successful

Today was a good day.

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Originally Posted by Mysterysword

Newsflash to all tanks: Tenacity increases your damage as well, stop wearing slaying accessories, kthxbai.

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From what I've heard on the subject...
The returns are miniscule.

I think I even heard someone say it was worse than parry...
And that's bad.





On topic.

Got in Haukke Manor for leveling on my bard.
Had a sprout conjurer who wasn't doing any damage at all, and healing the tank when he was still full, sometimes idling during pulls.


Between pulls I typed out a message, There's no need to cast a heal when no one is hurt, you can pout your dots on enemies when no one's hurt. ;P

They started doing dps, and on the first boss commented that it wasn't so boring anymore XD

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

Lvl65 dungeon Bardum Run dropps 276 Gear
He was equipped with an overall ~267 Gear. If melded, with even better stats.
So, he was at max 9 ILVL behind the maximum he could have. That's not much.

When i ran Doma Castle, i had a mix of 262 HQ gear and 265 dungeon gear equipped. The run was absolutely smooth, with the healer even dps-ing.
I honestly don't see why he shouldnt be able to finish the dungeon in 267 gear.
Especially, since you *could* have stopped dps-ing and full time heal instead... but refused. *points at your screenshot above*

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This. And thanks for posting it.

If this is the kind of healer I can look forward to in SB, where before I can queue as a tank, I need to have maxed the gear from the immediately previous dungeon (figure 10-15 runs, minimum), then this game looks to be a lot less fun than it used to be.

No idea how a tank can be average 9 iLvl below max possible for the content they are running and their healer can't keep up.

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Originally Posted by Sieben79

I think you're right. I shouldn't play any healer class anymore :(

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With the elitist "will only heal a tank who is perfectly max geared for whatever dungeon I am in" attitude? No, you shouldn't play a healer anymore.

Newsflash - I tank for undergeared, lazy, PotD_4ever ignorant DPS and heals all the freaking time in DF randoms. I also get badass heals, steamroller DPS in randoms. I need the gear/tomestones/experience, so I tank fr either. Roulette means not picking and choosing who you get, but making the best of the group that gets dropped on you. Either quit healing, or stay out DF and go make your "only max possible iLvl tanks need apply" PF listing.

Managed to sit through my 78 minute DPS queue for expert this morning. It was well worth it. I think I might have found the cutest Lala I've ever seen. A little Red Mage in the AF gear. I wanted to turn him into a plushie. XD

Sadly I did not think to take a screenshot, but it made my queue rage abate the instant I saw him, so it worked out in the end.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

I see "not giving a damn" as "being a jerk".
...
I cant give him a rotation of his job, because I only have a lvl 60 dragoon which I havent touched yet in SB.

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You believed the dragoon was being a jerk, because you believed that he was "not giving a damn". In retaliation, you went out of your way to use an improper rotation and critisize the dragoon to the point that the part fell apart... despite not actually knowing anything about the class.

That is why you were being a jerk. It's stuff like this that prevents DPS meters from being added to the game. I'd would have tried to kick you. There are plenty of DPS in the queue who aren't jerks

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

This community really is glorious sometimes.


I tell the DRG to put effort.


I still dont care. I'd rather lose some time than being the only one who puts effort.

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sigh...sometimes this thread is freakin poison. As this post shows, it brings out the worse in people.

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Originally Posted by winsock

You believed the dragoon was being a jerk, because you believed that he was "not giving a damn". In retaliation, you went out of your way to use an improper rotation and critisize the dragoon to the point that the part fell apart... despite not actually knowing anything about the class.

That is why you were being a jerk. It's stuff like this that prevents DPS meters from being added to the game. I'd would have tried to kick you. There are plenty of DPS in the queue who aren't jerks

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^^^

If I was tanking with her in the group, I would have initiated the kick myself

Yesterday I unlocked Susano Normal Mode, and went on DF to clear it. After the second wipe, the tanks began some DEAD SERIOUS argument over who should be MT and who should be OT. (basically, the current OT didn't know how to absorb the purple balls, and the MT "kindly" suggested they switch roles)

The name-calling ensued, we took 5 minutes to pull and they CONTINUED arguing and telling each other all the nice ways they would treat each other's mom.

So I started to weave in my rotations the entire lyrics to "Can You Feel the Love Tonight" from the Lion King Disney movie, in all caps and some emotes thrown in.
We cleared the boss. I got 5 comms as a DPS. It was a good day :D

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Originally Posted by Mysterysword

Newsflash to all tanks: Tenacity increases your damage as well, stop wearing slaying accessories, kthxbai.

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Uh this isn't really a newsflash, most tanks are aware of this, Tenacity looks to be completely worthless and not worth the time - on a level worse than Parry. There's a reason those tanks are wearing Slaying gear, and if that reason isn't fixed eventually enmity will become an issue.

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Originally Posted by winsock

That is why you were being a jerk.

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We don't have the full context here, so it is hard to make a fully informed opinion, but can you really blame Faliandra for not wanting to do the work of 2-2.5 people (carrying the DPS of both damage dealers and the healer's potential DPS)?

Maybe it could have been handled better, but that seems like a pretty undeniably frustrating situation.

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Originally Posted by winsock

You believed the dragoon was being a jerk, because you believed that he was "not giving a damn". In retaliation, you went out of your way to use an improper rotation and critisize the dragoon to the point that the part fell apart... despite not actually knowing anything about the class.

That is why you were being a jerk. It's stuff like this that prevents DPS meters from being added to the game. I'd would have tried to kick you. There are plenty of DPS in the queue who aren't jerks

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I know numbers, and I know when theyre "meh", when theyre "decent", when theyre "wow" and when theyre straight out ABYSMAL. This dragoon was straight out ABYSMAL.
Without knowing anything about the SB dragoon, I promise you I would do better after taking a couple of minutes of figuring out my skills. Heck, no. Even a simple 1-2-3 rotation would most likely do more than what he did. Anyone couldve beaten that dragoon.
I did twice his amount of damage on lvl 60 as a drg and I dont even main it. So if that makes me the jerk for knowing that this person didnt bother more than pushing 1-2 buttons, I'll gladly be the jerk.
I also didnt make the party fall apart. I went to the same lvl as the dragoon and we still killed everything. It just took very long. But hey, you people always says it doesnt matter if the dungeon takes a few minutes more as
long as you clear. Boom. Thats what you got. Oh? Suddenly it isnt good enough for you anymore that I'm not carrying you? Welp. Too bad. I'm sure the next DPS will carry you.

As for the kicking part...Yes. Please always do. I will always appreciate a free penalty-free kick out of any abysmal party.

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Originally Posted by Annah

sigh...sometimes this thread is freakin poison. As this post shows, it brings out the worse in people.

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You have a weird definition of "toxic" or "poison" when me wanting everyone to equally pull his weight in a TEAM-ORIENTED game is toxic.
If someone else gets a free pass for slacking...why cant I? That dragoon couldve done QUITE a bit better if he HAD WANTED.

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Originally Posted by Annah

^^^

If I was tanking with her in the group, I would have initiated the kick myself

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I'll thankfully take that penalty-free kick out of hell! ^^

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Originally Posted by missybee

We don't have the full context here, so it is hard to make a fully informed opinion, but can you really blame Faliandra for not wanting to do the work of 2-2.5 people (carrying the DPS of both damage dealers and the healer's potential DPS)?

Maybe it could have been handled better, but that seems like a pretty undeniably frustrating situation.

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And thats exactly my point. Why should I do all the work for everyone else? And why are some people calling this attitude toxic?
I'm not expecting top dps, but theres a point where no one can justify his low dps anymore.

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Originally Posted by Voormund

most tanks are aware of this

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From what I've seen, no, no, they are not. I don't understand why we had a good thing going on with VIT that had to be broken.

I just did Susano HM and uhhh, there was this smn who wasn't using DoTs or DWT or anything they were just... waiting for ruin 4? I mean, I guess you do you...

I'm currently leveling my mid 30s WHM and mother of God the lower level dungeons are a dumpster fire atm.

Earlier today I tanked Halitalli because the tanks rotation consisted of: Body pull > Flash (whether it hit every mob or not) and that was it. Multiple attempts at communication resulted in nothing but the next awkward pull and mute silence.

Similarly: Brayflox, same deal as above except with the occasional "stfu I'm learning" or "OMG let me keep monsters." On Aitar we were told "I have my strategy you need to follow it" that strategy being standing him on poison while taking breaths to the face and shouting at the dps for not killing it faster.

I could go on, but I'm literally staying in most parties because I feel sorry for bailing on the dps that had to wait 30 minutes for this garbage...

A few days ago, I queued as PLD for Trials roulette, because quick queues and I usually prefer tanking for trials anyway. So, Titan HM, which seems to be all that roulette consists of these days, if not some variant of Steps of Faith.

The other tank was a sprout, but decently-geared, DRK. They already had both Grit and Darkside on, so I popped Sword Oath, and off we go.

Except that, a few combos into the fight, I ended up ripping aggro by cycling through RoH combos. In Sword Oath. The DRK tried to take aggro back, but still couldn't keep aggro off an OT in damage stance. Fine, I popped Shield Oath, dragged Titan to the edge of the platform (as opposed to the middle, where the DRK had been keeping him, because giving people less room to dodge AoEs is such a great idea), and started MTing with no issues.

Did this DRK take the hint and start DPSing? What's that, common sense? In my DF? Hah! Perish the thought! No, they just kept Grit on and kept trying to take back aggro all throughout the rest of the phases. When they finally took it back in the last phase, I decided it wasn't worth fighting for it and went back to Sword Oath.

I probably should've just made an effort to keep aggro, because they, of course, took Titan back to the middle, making everyone's jobs much more difficult because of their own idiocy.

I really want to just play DPS. I'm a BLM at heart and always will be, but if I'm not tanking myself, or running with an FC tank, I end up with countless stories like these.

When you're in the Royal Menagerie long enough to get TWO Healer LB3s out within the same fight. We got the clear too :)

.... I love healing this fight so much. No sarcasm. lol.

A funny moment in my duty finder.

Everytime I DirectCrit with Midare Setsugekka.

I laugh everytime :3

I actually almost left Doma Castle a few minutes ago.

I know SE is still claiming they're being DDoS'd (at least, according to the login notification I see every time I enter the game), but I'm beginning to think that's just an excuse. I will be completely fine everywhere until I get into an instance, and then my lag is so bad the game is practically unplayable. Now, in the past, I've usually managed to fix this by simply restarting the game, so I asked the tank after the first boss (because I lagged out and nearly died) if I could just quickly restart my client because I was lagging. Well, they continued to charge forward. I asked a second time after a couple trash pulls. Again, no response. So I spent the entire duty lagging and rubber-banding 90% of the time, could barely DPS at all, and I was certain I was overhealing a lot just trying to keep everyone alive in the event I lagged so bad everything froze. I felt completely and utterly embarrassed and useless as a healer.

I checked my connection and it was fine. I checked FFXIV my Resource Monitor, my latency is the same as it usually is (lower, actually, according to my Resource Monitor), I'm not having any visible packet loss, CPU usage and Memory usage are all the same, and again, this only happens when I get into a duty. Others in my LS are experiencing the same issues, and I'm sure people on other servers are as well. I just really wish SE would get this sorted out. Early Access was already a fustercluck, and I dealt with that. DF has been having issues every other night lately, and I dealt with that. But my patience has reached its end now.

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Originally Posted by Mysterysword

From what I've seen, no, no, they are not. I don't understand why we had a good thing going on with VIT that had to be broken.

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Beats me, vit scaling was the best thing. Well, better get used to full slaying for now, the dps increase is so high that it would be stupid to ignore.

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Originally Posted by Mysterysword

From what I've seen, no, no, they are not. I don't understand why we had a good thing going on with VIT that had to be broken.

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But we didn't. This whole Vit bs was implemented with HW because people kept crying about tanks having low hp. A real good thing were full STR tanks in ARR, glad we are going back to that.

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Originally Posted by LunaFaye

But we didn't. This whole Vit bs was implemented with HW because people kept crying about tanks having low hp. A real good thing were full STR tanks in ARR, glad we are going back to that.

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Every other job in the game now scales their damage from their main stat why tanks should be different is stupid, having to use 270 acc at 70 is stupid even hardcore raiders agreed that Vit scaling was perfect.

SE is either going to change it back to Vit scaling or lock out all STR accessories so we are never going back to that in the long run.

When we start seeing tanks sacrificing aggro for damage, I think we've got a problem with the meta

I mean, I get it, wanting to contribute and making solo not suck and generally wanted to take advantage of all the complexity the job can provide. But if this is how it's going to go, I don't want to see any more complaints about DPS not knowing their rotations and killing things slowly, or healers not paying attention to HP.

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Originally Posted by Baalfrog

Well, better get used to full slaying for now, the dps increase is so high that it would be stupid to ignore.

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I would get used to it, maybe I could even tolerate it, if DPS-focused tanks weren't some of the most obnoxious, arrogant idiots to ever walk this earth. As it is, I don't want to get used to tanks who try and pull everything, refuse to use their cooldowns or AoE aggro skills, blame everything on the healers/DPS, and generally just give actual tanks a bad name.

I once had a WAR who tried to pull the final boss of Hullbreaker Isle HM in Deliverance, while also severely undergeared for the dungeon. They lost aggro to me casting a single Fire and Fire III, couldn't get aggro back for a solid minute, and then chose to spend the rest of the boss fight and beyond, insulting me and claiming it was my fault they couldn't be bothered to put on Defiance for one pull. This same WAR also caused a healer to leave by dying to a large pull and blaming the healer for it, BTW.

I also witnessed another WAR, this time in Hullbreaker Isle normal, with full STR accessories, who insisted on doing large pulls. That party went through no less than three healers until we finally got one who was willing to put up with their bullshit.

So no, I don't want to get used to or tolerate tanks like these, ever.

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Originally Posted by Mysterysword

I would get used to it, maybe I could even tolerate it, if DPS-focused tanks weren't some of the most obnoxious, arrogant idiots to ever walk this earth.

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Just this.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

When we start seeing tanks sacrificing aggro for damage, I think we've got a problem with the meta

I mean, I get it, wanting to contribute and making solo not suck and generally wanted to take advantage of all the complexity the job can provide. But if this is how it's going to go, I don't want to see any more complaints about DPS not knowing their rotations and killing things slowly, or healers not paying attention to HP.

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More damage also means more aggro the change from 3.0-4.0 if you have all VIT acc is very noticeable

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I actually almost left Doma Castle a few minutes ago.

I know SE is still claiming they're being DDoS'd (at least, according to the login notification I see every time I enter the game), but I'm beginning to think that's just an excuse. I will be completely fine everywhere until I get into an instance, and then my lag is so bad the game is practically unplayable.

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Its sad how people like you just really want to blame SE for everything.

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Originally Posted by Rivxkobe

Its sad how people like you just really want to blame SE for everything.

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Fun Fact i too have problems with lags / freezes - but only in dungeons & trials.

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

Fun Fact i too have problems with lags / freezes - but only in dungeons & trials.

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I wasn't saying she wasn't experiencing it, I was saying that instead of accepting that the DDoSing is happening she instead wants to blame SE. Because its easy to blame SE around here.

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Originally Posted by Mysterysword

snip

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Well, essentially you got 3 kinds of people in both tank & healer category here. The good ones who can do it, the mediocre ones who can fumble through it with luck or by being partially carried, and then you have the bad ones just can't do it and are so deep in their own hype bubble that don't see the flaws in their own play.

As for the obnoxious part, thats how it is when you queue in disaster finder, and if worst comes to worst, kick+blacklist and replace always works :p.

I don't understand DPS focused tanks in 4 man content.

I too had a WAR playing in STR acccessories in a party with me as WHM, a BLM and a BRD. All he had to do was pull big and stand there while we melted everything around him, instead he goes into Deliverance with 2 packs and I don't notice at first (becauze it makes no sense, he has virtually no AoE to my knowledge and I have Aero3+Holy/PoM/ThinAir+Assize but I am stuck healing this asshat while he fell cleaves and ripping aggro off him along with the BLM. I don't generally like BLMs but I felt bad for her.

So after she and I tanking up to the first boss we ask him to use tank stance and he tries to votekick me. I know because she says in party chat something like "No! At least she is able to keep us all alive while you do this!"

After the first boss in Shisui he DC'd. I made my boyfriend stop gathering and queue in progress and we finished the rest of the run in style.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

This community really is glorious sometimes.

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It really is.

We sit around, telling each other we shouldn't put up with dps that don't try but when someone like Faliandra actually goes through with it, we decide she's at fault for basically doing the exact same thing as that dragoon to PROVE A POINT. And this was after being asked to step up their game.

Glorious community indeed.