ARR Gil Cap Reduction

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

i'm still confused on this. will the game drop to being able to get 999mil to 99mil or will we lose a full decimal each?

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both

/10char

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

lol Noctis your sig, weren't there more retarded things I have ever said to be quoted over that?

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Lol I have no business collecting retarded quotes. Just holding onto quotes from people who are adamant in believing 2.0 market won't get significantly marked down after the redenomination.

Some accountability will be appreciated. Although I will admit you're nowhere near the level of Dubont in being stubborn and blind.

i hope this topic continues to persist well past 1,000 replies.
This whole thing is a kick in the nuts.
I get it, the market is inflated.
I walked into WoW the other day and was so proud of my first gold until i realised cheap gear is several hundred G.

But this is a kick in the balls.
Yes, a worldwide cut is equal and so on...
yeah right...
The chances of this actually making our overhead cost equal or less is erm ... limited.

I've got a great example.
I used to get a $75 monthly tax return from the government.
Then they introduced this new 'Trillium benefit' tax return.
We're all getting more money! YAY! (okay, not the less money boo of this topic, but bear with me)
The new Tax return was for me a full $50 a month.
What they completely didn't mention is that my old $75 credits would stop arriving.

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Originally Posted by NefarioCall

i hope this topic continues to persist well past 1,000 replies.
This whole thing is a kick in the nuts.
I get it, the market is inflated.
I walked into WoW the other day and was so proud of my first gold until i realised cheap gear is several hundred G.

But this is a kick in the balls.
Yes, a worldwide cut is equal and so on...
yeah right...
The chances of this actually making our overhead cost equal or less is erm ... limited.

I've got a great example.
I used to get a $75 monthly tax return from the government.
Then they introduced this new 'Trillium benefit' tax return.
We're all getting more money! YAY! (okay, not the less money boo of this topic, but bear with me)
The new Tax return was for me a full $50 a month.
What they completely didn't mention is that my old $75 credits would stop arriving.

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There are good comparisons, bad comparisons, and then there is that.

Based on your post, I suggest you set aside some time to reread both the announcement from yoshi and this thread so you can come to a better understanding of what is being done and the likely future outcomes. Namely that, relatively speaking about our Gil, nothing is really changing. And that aside from initial inflation the economy will be pretty much normal, dictated as always by supply, demand and our Gil.

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Originally Posted by NefarioCall

I walked into WoW the other day

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http://www.cuantocabron.com/images/t...d-template.jpg

Actually im wondering about one thing.

In another post of a community rep, it is stated, that new players will get their own servers in the beginning. (and i guess that will stay that way for the first months.
How will the "gil reduction" have any impact on new players economy if they have their own servers?

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Originally Posted by HKP

Actually im wondering about one thing.

In another post of a community rep, it is stated, that new players will get their own servers in the beginning. (and i guess that will stay that way for the first months.
How will the "gil reduction" have any impact on new players economy if they have their own servers?

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They can still choose our servers, but they can also can choose their own. I hope they join us ( we need the fresh population) - but I would hope SE stops making reasons why they shouldnt join us.

Even if they enter new servers where the economy will be fresh, they'll be gaining gil at the new denomination.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Even if they enter new servers where the economy will be fresh, they'll be gaining gil at the new denomination.

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What the... how... WHY is this debate still going on???

http://i.imgur.com/9SLS6.png

Also relevant: Yesterday I walked into the market wards to buy a lvl 18 goldsmithing main hand to lvl up my goldsmith. There weren't any up for sale. Cool dadyo, I'll just buy a lvl 8 mainhand instead, good thing there is one left for sale.









200K.







?????





**** this economy, nothing will change after ARR because people don't have any logical reason for pricing the items the way they do in the first place and that wont change after the gil redenomination either. Goes back to fishing.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

lol Noctis your sig, weren't there more retarded things I have ever said to be quoted over that?

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If I had a list of everything stupid you said about the mage jobs in FFXIV, I'll be scribing like a tax accountant at end-of-financial year reports.

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

If I had a list of everything stupid you said about the mage jobs in FFXIV, I'll be scribing like a tax accountant at end-of-financial year reports.

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Stupid? Didn't Black Mage,which is traditional awesome at casting Fire/Ice/Thunders spells, and good with Bio, Drain, Meteor, Ancient Magic spells, Osmose, and in FFXIV all it can really do is Thunder/Thundara and that isn't stupid?

Or you have 2 classes and 1 job that is already similar to Red Mage how can they differ when there is a 15 ability limit.

I can go on but, one you probably will just say its fine without any good answers and just say it's good as is. 2 this isn't my thread.

http://oi46.tinypic.com/1zn7ucj.jpg
(modified cartoon to fit FFXIV)

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Originally Posted by Matsume

Also relevant: Yesterday I walked into the market wards to buy a lvl 18 goldsmithing main hand to lvl up my goldsmith. There weren't any up for sale. Cool dadyo, I'll just buy a lvl 8 mainhand instead, good thing there is one left for sale.

200K.


?????

**** this economy, nothing will change after ARR because people don't have any logical reason for pricing the items the way they do in the first place and that wont change after the gil redenomination either. Goes back to fishing.

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Sooo... you've just discovered that low level gear tends to be way overpriced due to crafters not bothering to make them to sell, thus low supply. You acknowledge this as a problem with the market... and you're expressing your disappointment in the redenomination because its not fixing it?

Lol. Yea. That's what redenominating was supposed to do.

I still find it hard to imagine a stack of 99 Iron ore selling for 50gil.
I really think it's bound to settle in closer to 100gil.
... but last i checked a month ago it was 500gil.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Sooo... you've just discovered that low level gear tends to be way overpriced due to crafters not bothering to make them to sell, thus low supply. You acknowledge this as a problem with the market... and you're expressing your disappointment in the redenomination because its not fixing it?

Lol. Yea. That's what redenominating was supposed to do.

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Yeaaaah Noctis, I "just" figured this out like yesterday and not a year ago when I went around killing NMs for their gear instead of paying market ward prices.

So, you acknowledge that exessive market ward prices for low lvl gear are caused by human greed and lack of crafters producing them and have nothing to do with total money supply in the game yet you continue to believe people will price these items at 1/10th after the redenomination?

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Originally Posted by NefarioCall

I still find it hard to imagine a stack of 99 Iron ore selling for 50gil.
I really think it's bound to settle in closer to 100gil.
... but last i checked a month ago it was 500gil.

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I think you have your numbers mixed up. I can guarantee you that on no server is there an entire stack of iron ore selling on the ward for today's price of 500gil. Each individual piece of ore selling for 500? Yeah that sounds more accurate and that is the current price on my server.

A stack of iron ore would cost 49,500 gil. In ARR, the approximate value of that same stack of ore would be 4,950 gil, 50 gil per individual chunk.

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Originally Posted by Matsume

Yeaaaah Noctis, I "just" figured this out like yesterday and not a year ago when I went around killing NMs for their gear instead of paying market ward prices.

So, you acknowledge that exessive market ward prices for low lvl gear are caused by human greed and lack of crafters producing them and have nothing to do with total money supply in the game yet you continue to believe people will price these items at 1/10th after the redenomination?

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Are you even reading what he posts? He never said ANYTHING about the price of items being 1/10th as they are, but merely that based on the CHANGING ECONOMY and DIFFERENT SUPPLY AND DEMANDS of OLD AND NEW ITEMS IN THE GAME, prices will fluctuate but will settle out lower than what they are now. We don't know HOW the game's influx of materials, gear and necessities will be changed in ARR, but that knowledge of changes between rates, introduction of new items and removal of old items is enough to warrant a substantial reshuffle of prices amongst things. Some materials may end up being 5% of the price they were originally in 1.0, while others may decrease only 50%. In this, new players will be ON LEVEL GROUND with old players, as even the old players can use crystal balls to view which materials will be more likely to earn them wealth at the beginning of the game.

And in case you may have not noticed...there's not that many for sale not merely because of human greed of lack of crafters, BUT LACK OF DEMAND. I'm going to sound hypocritical, but if everyone wasn't high-levelled in all disciplines, there would be more demand for lower-levelled gear. Actually, I'm no hypocritical at all, as I still require low-level gear for my crafter and gathering disciplines. I also give what I take - once I'm done with a piece, I don't usually NPC or chuck it, I sell it back at market wards. I even make some hempen and cotton gear and put them up periodically, and they take a few days, but they sell. So may I suggest you make your own, make a few more, then let them enter the market system to circle around, as brief a lifespan as they may be.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

A stack of iron ore would cost 49,500 gil. In ARR, the approximate value of that same stack of ore would be 4,950 gil, 50 gil per individual chunk.

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In theory...

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

Are you even reading what he posts? He never said ANYTHING about the price of items being 1/10th as they are, but merely that based on the CHANGING ECONOMY and DIFFERENT SUPPLY AND DEMANDS of OLD AND NEW ITEMS IN THE GAME, prices will fluctuate but will settle out lower than what they are now. We don't know HOW the game's influx of materials, gear and necessities will be changed in ARR, but that knowledge of changes between rates, introduction of new items and removal of old items is enough to warrant a substantial reshuffle of prices amongst things. Some materials may end up being 5% of the price they were originally in 1.0, while others may decrease only 50%. In this, new players will be ON LEVEL GROUND with old players, as even the old players can use crystal balls to view which materials will be more likely to earn them wealth at the beginning of the game.

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Hmmm, you should go reread the first 90 pages wherin noctis avidly supports the idea that prices will settle at 1/10th. I'm not going to go over this with some raging troll.

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

And in case you may have not noticed...there's not that many for sale not merely because of human greed of lack of crafters, BUT LACK OF DEMAND. I'm going to sound hypocritical, but if everyone wasn't high-levelled in all disciplines, there would be more demand for lower-levelled gear. Actually, I'm no hypocritical at all, as I still require low-level gear for my crafter and gathering disciplines. I also give what I take - once I'm done with a piece, I don't usually NPC or chuck it, I sell it back at market wards. I even make some hempen and cotton gear and put them up periodically, and they take a few days, but they sell. So may I suggest you make your own, make a few more, then let them enter the market system to circle around, as brief a lifespan as they may be.

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Wrong again my friend, there is plenty of demand for low lvl crafting tools on my server. They sell on a daily basis so I'm just going to stop right there and assume the rest of what you say is based on an imaginary world.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Lol. Yea. That's what redenominating was supposed to do.

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Last i checked Yoshi P's official reason for redenomination has something to do with removing arrows from archers. LOL. Can we just let this horse die?

So I think after 978 posts its safe to conclude:

Prices will either drop by 1/10th in the wards across the board or they will not drop.

Otherwise, everything else will be equal.

A level 1 player can pick up a weathered blacksmith tool and make that level 8 goldsmith one. All they need is the three materials and shards, which are cheap and/or easy to acquire.

If people are so concerned about the prices of lowbie gear in the wards, they should do something about it. Go make those items and then sell them for reasonable prices to force the idiots trying to gouge to fall in line.

Personally, I blame SE on this one. Maybe if we weren't capable of going from level 1 to 50 on a battle class in the span of 2-3 days, gear under level 30 might be worth making and selling.

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Originally Posted by Matsume

In theory...



Hmmm, you should go reread the first 90 pages wherin noctis avidly supports the idea that prices will settle at 1/10th. I'm not going to go over this with some raging troll.



Wrong again my friend, there is plenty of demand for low lvl crafting tools on my server. They sell on a daily basis so I'm just going to stop right there and assume the rest of what you say is based on an imaginary world.



Last i checked Yoshi P's official reason for redenomination has something to do with removing arrows from archers. LOL. Can we just let this horse die?

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actually he wasn't talking about the market wards dropping to 1/10th he's made mention of npc prices dropping to 1/10 but no one mentioned market wards. We all understand that that is controlled by we the players and not by the game itself. We do know how ever that it would take an idiot to still purchase at pre ARR pricing since we can't hold as much gil and so people will undercut as they've always done to make the quickest sale. That's how it's going to be and that's the way it's always been no matter what game you've played.

Yes, Yoshi mentioned the reason why he's dropping price was because of the arrows but like I've said before. I think that's just an excuse he's given and not the full truth. We've all seen SE say things and do another or things happen and get pushed back, so I wouldn't be surprised if that was just a partial truth and he wasn't saying everything *shrugs*. This "dead horse" keeps getting beaten because new people come in and have a knee jerk reaction to the taking away of a number in their gil even when it's being done to everyone including the poor in this game. So if you want the dead horse to stop being beaten then tell the people who need to be told constantly that in all technically they're not losing money they're gaining value in what money they had instead of vise versa.

I doubt for the wards that the market prices will go down to 1/10 but they will drop because no one will buy anything at old prices if one can even remember old prices at that time when the game comes back up.

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Originally Posted by Matsume

Yeaaaah Noctis, I "just" figured this out like yesterday and not a year ago when I went around killing NMs for their gear instead of paying market ward prices.

So, you acknowledge that exessive market ward prices for low lvl gear are caused by human greed and lack of crafters producing them and have nothing to do with total money supply in the game yet you continue to believe people will price these items at 1/10th after the redenomination?

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I think the huge amount of Gil already in circulation contributes to why everything is priced high. And lack of supply, of course.

Matsume, no one is arguing that the wards are going to drop to exactly 1/10th of what they are now. But you seem to be avidly arguing that they won't change at all, which is just as absurd.

People have mentioned it numerous times, economies are driven by supply and demand, no one makes lowbie gear, so the few people who do are free to charge whatever they can get away with.

For someone who's sig is full of their ffxi crafting savvy you sure complain a lot about not being able to find something that anyone who spent 30 minutes at a craft could make.

If you don't want to spend 200k for a level 8 item, spend ~3k for it's component pieces, 1k for the weathered tool for it's required craft and put it together yourself... at level one you should have no issue making it. Or see if you have a friend who can make it... you do have friends... right?

why not leave the gil cap how it is now so the gil not being lowered?

This Discussion is pointless. In ARR we will have a totally new situation, market starts from 0 and it will take time till prices gonna be set.

For sure cause there is less gil in the game the prices will be lower, how low they will go is something that depends on alot things we dont know yet so you can't say. All you can do now is wait for ARR, watch the Prices and discuss then why they still so high or low or whatever....

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Originally Posted by cherevil

why not leave the gil cap how it is now so the gil not being lowered?

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The gil isnt being lowered in value - its being equally divided to maintain the same value *if an item was the same difficulty to obtain and disregarding player theory an item will cost the same in 1.0 as it does in 2.0.

The cap is being lowered to keep the same cap in %. Technically they could leave the cap, but this would mean they increased the cap.

The cap in respect to the rest of the market hasnt changed.

There needs to be a pic of a slowpoke with Matsume written on it.

Also... dear god if I'm actually called a troll again I'm going to lose what little hope I have left in humanity ( or at least the fraction of it that are active on these forums.)

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Originally Posted by Ferth

Matsume, no one is arguing that the wards are going to drop to exactly 1/10th of what they are now. But you seem to be avidly arguing that they won't change at all, which is just as absurd.

People have mentioned it numerous times, economies are driven by supply and demand, no one makes lowbie gear, so the few people who do are free to charge whatever they can get away with.

For someone who's sig is full of their ffxi crafting savvy you sure complain a lot about not being able to find something that anyone who spent 30 minutes at a craft could make.

If you don't want to spend 200k for a level 8 item, spend ~3k for it's component pieces, 1k for the weathered tool for it's required craft and put it together yourself... at level one you should have no issue making it. Or see if you have a friend who can make it... you do have friends... right?

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I never argued that prices would stay the same, just that its naive to think they will drop to 1/10th the current prices.

I'm not complaining about some guy charging 200K for an item that cost 2K, jut proving a point that the prices are elevated because people think they can get away with ripping other people off; which will continue after ARR regardless of the redenomination. And yes as noctis pointed out it's already happening.

Yes, I can make the item, and yes I have friends, ones with all crafts at lvl 50 AND all luminary items. Thank you very much.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Also... dear god if I'm actually called a troll again I'm going to lose what little hope I have left in humanity ( or at least the fraction of it that are active on these forums.)

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I wasn't calling you a troll, just the guy defending you; besides why do you have any hope in humanity to begin with? I see no reason for such naivete.

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Originally Posted by Quesse

Prices will either drop by 1/10th in the wards across the board or they will not drop.

Otherwise, everything else will be equal.

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Well... Yeah.

But still everyone wants to play Crystall Ball and predict the future so they can then come back when they were right and boast about it.

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Originally Posted by Colino

Well... Yeah.

But still everyone wants to play Crystall Ball and predict the future so they can then come back when they were right and boast about it.

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I told you already, it's not a crystal ball! It's the chinese art of divination by applying a hot iron poker to turtle shell and interpreting the sounds made by the cracking of the shell! If that fails, augury usually works by interpreting the flight patterns of birds! Sheesh!

I think this thread has out done the regional servers thread.

I wasn't aware they clarified this issue, and I'm glad they did. 1/10th really isn't a big deal.... I'd go on about how I don't understand why people are flipping out, but it's been beaten to death.

I think it's a bold move on SE's part that ensures that our economy keeps working w/o being over inflated like crazy. I do feel bad for carpenters though, I know most people w/CRP make their gil via arrow sales. Maybe make all the throwing weapons crafted by CRPs? Just a thought!

It'll be shaky for like 2 days, then everything will even up.

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Originally Posted by Pyretta_Blaze

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Originally Posted by Alerith

Perhaps we should stop trying to reasonably set people straight about this. Instead, level crafts for 2.0 and when it hits, sell everything for the new 10%-ish value.

You'll look like you're undercutting the market, but you'll actually be selling it for the same 1.0 value in 2.0 currency, and people will compare your item sold at 20k against the same item sold by everyone else at 200k.

You'll come out with the profit and you'll make the first steps to stabilizing the market.

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That was my plan even before the gil change was announced. I'm going to craft a ton of low and mid level gear and sell it for a reasonable price... If some jerk comes along and buys it up and lists it higher I will start giving it away...

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Same for me. I even do that now.
I don't really care about a "stabilized" economy if I consider the prices not representing the real value of the items.
Selling at the market ward currently represent only 25% of my earnings, I don't care losing a bit if it's to sell faster and more, at a price that I consider to be more reasonable.

And when I find an item at an outrageous price, I flood the market with it at my price. That usually do the trick for a couple weeks.

People will come out of it with the same purchase power as they have now. That's what counts, not the amount of digits.
If you still feel insecure, just look at this before going to bed:

2,000,000 gil now -> 200,000,0 gil then.
six zeros! -> six zeros!

I understand economics and I know all this makes sense in the long run and hopefully it will go as planned but, if I PERSONALLY knew that making Gil wasn't going to be as difficult as I found it in XI (not the same for others I know) then I wouldn't be so :-s about this. Not going to flip out but I'm not going to say I'm not concerned as well. It felt good to be able to hold a solid 1-2 Mil amount on my character in XIV and therefore the stress of not being able to afford something in game was removed for me. I hope this continues with 2.0 as well. I definitely won't be quitting because of this I'm still excited and all just hope it doesn't effect me as much as my unfounded worries are making me THINK it will. lol

i personally believe the buying power is drastically going to change in 2.0, but the gil change is going to have alot less to do with it than other changes going into the game are.

the biggest issue that's going to affect your buying power will be the crafting changes. to say you can't craft a recipe until you get the recipe for it is going to drastically affect the prices of every item in the wards.

let's look at an example.
Darksteel Huebergeon
Garlean Steel Plate
Darksteel Ingot
Hippogryph Leather
Undyed Felt
Darksteel Nugget

that's 5 items and you are going to have to wait until 5 people get lucky and get those recipes to be able to craft those items. that's just to be able to get the materials to make them. now you then have to wait until someone gets the recipe in their book to be able to make that single piece of gear. the first person that gets that recipe for any part of that synth can sell those items for whatever they want and you can either pay them or not get the gear you are after.

the biggest advice is anything you know you will be needing come 2.0 you better stock up on now because when 2.0 comes out just with the crafting changes it may be a long time until it makes it into the wards and then even longer before they become affordable.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i personally believe the buying power is drastically going to change in 2.0, but the gil change is going to have alot less to do with it than other changes going into the game are.

the biggest issue that's going to affect your buying power will be the crafting changes. to say you can't craft a recipe until you get the recipe for it is going to drastically affect the prices of every item in the wards.

let's look at an example.
Darksteel Huebergeon
Garlean Steel Plate
Darksteel Ingot
Hippogryph Leather
Undyed Felt
Darksteel Nugget

that's 5 items and you are going to have to wait until 5 people get lucky and get those recipes to be able to craft those items. that's just to be able to get the materials to make them. now you then have to wait until someone gets the recipe in their book to be able to make that single piece of gear. the first person that gets that recipe for any part of that synth can sell those items for whatever they want and you can either pay them or not get the gear you are after.

the biggest advice is anything you know you will be needing come 2.0 you better stock up on now because when 2.0 comes out just with the crafting changes it may be a long time until it makes it into the wards and then even longer before they become affordable.

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I would expect that most recipe book entries would be based on level. For instance, if you get level 10, all recipes of that class up to level 15 or 20 automatically unlock. The only exceptions would be super rare things as a result of quest rewards or the like but I don't think anything we can make freely now will later be restricted by that. That's just a theory mind you but I'm pretty confident in it.

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Originally Posted by mbncd

I would expect that most recipe book entries would be based on level. For instance, if you get level 10, all recipes of that class up to level 15 or 20 automatically unlock. The only exceptions would be super rare things as a result of quest rewards or the like but I don't think anything we can make freely now will later be restricted by that. That's just a theory mind you but I'm pretty confident in it.

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i actually hope you are correct, but seeing the response to the question that rein translated has me more worried. they mentioned questing and adding recipes you are given to your book. it worries my you may have to do like a quest to make gloves as weavers and can't make any type of gloves at all until they complete it. that or you will get recipes from leve completions like we did originally and then everyone would be spamming leves hoping to be the first to get that one good new recipe. if it's like leves are now you may do 1000 leves and never get any single recipe you actually want to use.