LOLSE, We're not wearing 270 STR to hold hate, c'mon now...

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Originally Posted by Dicejss

Tank wearing STR accessories is like healers wearing INT accessories before the Mind stat change it's so stupid. Tanks are acting like they are providing an extra 50% dps by stacking STR instead of focusing on doing their job as a tank by soaking dmg and holding threat.

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Not sure if you're blind or simply just ignorant. But it's already been repeatedly stated many times now in both this thread and many other threads recently that a Tank can do their job just fine while also wearing STR accessories.

But since it seems you need someone to repeat the point for you yet again. VIT does literally absolutely nothing for Tanks but pad their HP out more. It doesn't reduce incoming damage or increase healing received at all PERIOD! So as long as a Tank has enough HP to handle Tank busters just fine in boss fights they don't need more HP.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

That's what I would call a "bad scaled content". On your example, Tankbusters should do around 40k if you're supposed to be ilvl300 to enter.

Or, even better, if SE really want to enforce tank stance : Tankbusters should do 90k and your tank stance should either reduce damage by 50% or increase HP max and healing received by 100%.

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I think we'd have to get in the realm of 100k+ tankbusters, there is simply too much mitigation avail. Even at 100k, even if invuln cds had no effect, it's easy to get 50% mitigation or more by stacking cds. Obviously it would depend greatly on their frequency and the frequency of other mechanics, but still. When I saw all the cds available on my war now I thought for sure we'd see tankbusters in the realm of 100k. Doesn't sound like it's happened yet but nobody knows what savage will bring. Maybe savage will be the ace up the dev's sleeves to get tanks to wear their shiny new vitality accessories lol.

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Originally Posted by Dicejss

Tank wearing STR accessories is like healers wearing INT accessories before the Mind stat change it's so stupid. Tanks are acting like they are providing an extra 50% dps by stacking STR instead of focusing on doing their job as a tank by soaking dmg and holding threat.

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Firstly, you're analogy is nonsensical. Healers had cleric stance so they could instantly swap MND into INT to DPS. There was never a reason to stack anything but MND for them.

Secondly, it's been done to death, but tanks can contribute almost as much DPS as a real DPS, if they push for it. And having tons of health is only useful to a point.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Doesn't sound like it's happened yet but nobody knows what savage will bring. Maybe savage will be the ace up the dev's sleeves to get tanks to wear their shiny new vitality accessories lol.

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I don't think it's likely. I'm holding out judgement till savage is released but it kind of sounds like the intention of SB was to remove all challenge from FF14. We used to think the point of varying difficulty levels was to please different groups. Those wanting a very tough challenge would go to the extreme primals and savage content. Those wanting a more casual laid back experience would do dungeons, normal modes, and 24man raids. SB dumbed down jobs and the current ex primals are largely a joke so it seems to be sending the message that SE no longer wants anything that's not casual content in ff14.

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

SB dumbed down jobs and the current ex primals are largely a joke so it seems to be sending the message that SE no longer wants anything that's not casual content in ff14.

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To be fair, it's not like ravana and bismarck ex were all that difficult when they were released, either. Really the only difficulty has ever been getting a group of 8 to fire on all cylinders, at least for those without statics. Once you learn and know the fights they repeat 100% without deviation, save for possible phase skip type stuff from having great dps. And that's when it get's stale.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

To be fair, it's not like ravana and bismarck ex were all that difficult when they were released, either. Really the only difficulty has ever been getting a group of 8 to fire on all cylinders, at least for those without statics. Once you learn and know the fights they repeat 100% without deviation, save for possible phase skip type stuff from having great dps. And that's when it get's stale.

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I still feel like bismark and ravana ex were fairly difficult when they were current. I'm not implying they were super impossible but still there were some nasty dps and heal checks in those fight and the mechanics where pretty unforgiving.

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

I still feel like bismark and ravana ex were fairly difficult when they were current.

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I'm pretty sure this is largely thanks to the Cross-world Party Finder system that back then didn't exist.
Altho, yes... Susano and Lakshmi has so little an amount of phases it feels weird...

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

I still feel like bismark and ravana ex were fairly difficult when they were current. I'm not implying they were super impossible but still there were some nasty dps and heal checks in those fight and the mechanics where pretty unforgiving.

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The DPS checks weren't nasty at all, even back then. The average player's competency was the biggest issue. Plus, everyone wanted to roll full Machinist parties before MCH actually got improved, and I vaguely recall it being statistically proven that MCHs just could not meet the DPS checks for fights whatsoever when they were initially added.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

That's what I would call a "bad scaled content". On your example, Tankbusters should do around 40k if you're supposed to be ilvl300 to enter.

Or, even better, if SE really want to enforce tank stance : Tankbusters should do 90k and your tank stance should either reduce damage by 50% or increase HP max and healing received by 100%.

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If you design the contents to not allow you to have "spare" mitigation even while using tank stance and invulnerability cds most people will struggle to clear and complain about the raids being too hard, just like how gordias required really high dps to clear and most people weren't good enough.

Personally even though I never managed to clear it pre echo, midas savage is my favourite raid tier. It has what I'd consider a good balance between dps/mitigation/healing/mechanic checks. Gordias dps check were really tight for groups whose tanks/healers weren't outputting high dps, while creator was lacking everywhere compared to midas when it comes to difficulty. To be fair though, if the dps checks of the raid is like creator, you shouldn't make the mitigation/healing checks too difficult lol. If you want difficult mitigation/healing checks then the dps check should also be difficult.

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

If you design the contents to not allow you to have "spare" mitigation even while using tank stance and invulnerability cds most people will struggle to clear and complain about the raids being too hard, just like how gordias required really high dps to clear and most people weren't good enough.

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Gordias required high DPS. To do high DPS, good gear is required but not enough, you need high level of skill.
This would be the same here. High HP would be required because it's basically what your ilvl is worth when you're a tank. Knowing the fight and how you manage your CD would be tied to your skill as a player. Besides, on top of that scaling, I'd also like mitigation to be more active and thus, more tied to player skill. Like I said to Zojha, having a player enough skilled with his mitigation that he can remove one or two VIT acc for STR acc melded vit VIT, yeah, it's fine, but not full STR.