Yoshi P's Stance on Pld

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Originally Posted by Exodus_Kenpachi

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this is the second time you've fabricated a falsified argument instead of taking in what I'm saying. Have fun soapboxing for whatever it is you're trying to prove, I'm not going to invest time elaborating my points again just so you can create your own argument to foil.

edit: I do agree that drk could use some retooling, though I'm not sure the int debuff is what needs targeting.

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Originally Posted by ArdorGrey

this is the second time you've fabricated a falsified argument instead of taking in what I'm saying. Have fun soapboxing for whatever it is you're trying to prove, I'm not going to invest time elaborating my points again just so you can create your own argument to foil.

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Your argument, from what I can tell, is that PLD can be played at a high level and functions at a level which does not warrant a total over haul. You even said you only feel that PLD needs "minor" tweeks.

I am saying that is wrong. Very wrong actually. PLD needs a rework. I then proceeded to explain why I feel that way.

I would love to hear what you feel are "minor" tweeks that could be made to allow for PLD to actually become viable.

Actually just answer me this: Do you feel like WAR 2.1 buffs were "minor" tweeks? Becuase they weren't. That is the kind of overhaul PLD needs.

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Originally Posted by Shining_Tiger_Excalibur

Clemency is for the most part worthless as OT or MT since it can be interrupted and has a 3 second cast time. You CAN'T use it as off-tank because the healers will beat you every single time with their (1.9 second) cast times. You CAN'T use it as main-tank because of the 3 second cast time, it can be interrupted, the enmity and damage modifiers for Paladin being the lowest will not allow you the time to cast it, and the healers will still beat you to the cast.

Paladin stances punish you entirely too much in savage content. You lose a GCD, your combo, aggro, dps, and mp JUST for 20% better damage reduction or an extra auto attack each time you switch. At the end of an encounter you will have lost perhaps 5-7 GCD's if you switch twice for each tank buster....that WILL wipe the group. I can accept 3/4's of that punishment but not all of it. This isn't conscious design, it's flat out ignorance of combat flow at this point. To stay relevant in end-game content every job needs to do damage fast if given the opportunity. Savage content (especially world first/progression) is nothing but a burn phase where you only stay in tank stance just for the critical damage that would kill you otherwise.

Paladin has more than just some room for improvement. It's living in a two-room apartment when it needs a football stadium in terms of adjustments.

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To: Community Reps,

Please see Shining's amazing post (above). Please please pass this along to Yoshi P and the Combat Team.

Thanks.

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Warrior
Brutal Swing > Recast time has been reduced from 30 to 20 seconds.
Overpower > Enmity generated has been increased.
Mercy Stroke > Recast time has been reduced from 60 to 40 seconds.
Thrill of Battle > Effect duration has been increased from 10 to 20 seconds.
Storm's Path > The combo bonus now also reduces damage dealt by enemies by 10%.TP cost has been reduced from 90 to 60.
Holmgang > Range has been extended from 3y to 6y. Enemies will now be pulled toward the caster. While under the effect of Holmgang, the caster's HP cannot be reduced to lower than 1. Players can now change the direction they are facing.
Vengeance > Now reduces incoming damage by 30% for 15 seconds.
Storm's Eye > TP cost has been reduced from 70 to 60.
Warrior
Defiance > While under the effect of Defiance, characters will now gain increased enmity, and HP recovered via curing magic is increased by 20%.
Inner Beast > HP absorption effect has been reduced from 300% to 100%. Now also reduces damage taken by 20% for 6 seconds.
Unchained > Recast time has been reduced from 180 to 120 seconds.
Steel Cyclone > Now generates increased enmity.
Wrath > The increased HP recovery effect has been removed.

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Patchnotes are archived.

A small change with large impact that's what I'd look for. If a clock isn't ticking, it could just as easily be a small cog that missing.

I don't relate to the criticisms of Shield Bash. I think Bash being on GCD is a selling point. Don't remember Ifrit HM when it was relevant? Levi Ex? Who's on stun duty? PVP? The TP cost is atrocious though.

edit woops Bash bashing wrong thread

Any new word from the devs on what changes might happen to pld in 3.1 yet? Or any known events before 3.1 where they might provide us some extra information?

The best we could get would be the liveletter on October 25th. Other then that, we're just gonna be compeltely in the dark with anything regarding Pld changes or patch 3.1 in regards to that. It will be interesting to see what changes they might have in mind given the current meta of Alexander savage but well, lets just hope they find a way to somehow increase the defensive and offensive utility of the Pld.

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Originally Posted by Kydi

Divine Veil is, in my opinion, a great idea, but clunkily executed. It would be interesting to see what would happen if it were completely re-thought though.

I've toyed with the the ability becoming more like deployment tactics. What if it took whatever buff the paladin has applied to itself and spread it to the party at half strength? It would then have some interesting support aspects - raid wide damage? Apply stoneskin/rampart to yourself and spread. Need dps? Pop fight or flight and spread.

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I wouldn't mind if it sacrificed your current defensive CD, cutting it to a quarter effect (10% Sentinal, 5% Rampart) and spreading it, with relatively little cooldown, but anything better than that is going to trivialize raid damage healer/dps checks, and essentially replace the tank LB. Also, as a "Veil" this should probably be limited to defensive abilities.

Tbh though, I would have rather they had just given us something more interesting in general to take {Divine Veil}'s place. Perhaps {Inspire}, as we'll see NPC gladiators/paladins use frequently. Plenty of ideas to play with there... Would rather {Clemency} be buffed to where it can actually perform as decent support, and {Sheltron} modified to {Aegis Boon}, castable on self or an ally (where you block for an ally within 14 yalms, at proportionally reduced strength past 8 yalms, and gain mana based on the damage mitigated). ({Aegis Boon} will always use the block strength of a kite shield. OR {Aegis Boon}'s CD varies with the balance of block strength to block rating, such as at approximately 18, 24, and 30 seconds for buckler, kite, and tower shields respectively.)

Thought of what I view as a better way to implement Divine Veil to avoid improperly applied mitigation shields to the party. It's also in my "What happens when....' thread.

'ADDENDUM: Divine Veil should function like Shield Swipe in that a cure or regen tick will activate the ability, however, you control when the mitigation shield is placed on others to avoid applying the mitigation shield to only some of the group. You'd essentially have to click the button twice but it would be more effective in A1s and A4s when the group needs to be huddled together but obstacles prevent that from happening quickly (Resin Puddles and Quarantine.)'

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

{Sheltron} modified to {Aegis Boon}, castable on self or an ally (where you block for an ally within 14 yalms, at proportionally reduced strength past 8 yalms, and gain mana based on the damage mitigated). ({Aegis Boon} will always use the block strength of a kite shield. OR {Aegis Boon}'s CD varies with the balance of block strength to block rating, such as at approximately 18, 24, and 30 seconds for buckler, kite, and tower shields respectively.)

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Aegis Boon is already in the game. It's the tanks' personnal LB (Adrenaline) in Seal Rock and Slaughter.

All the PLD salt is real, wow. It's almost like they were 100% mandatory for everything pre Heavens- oh. Right. Well let's just pretend that never happened.